Save plops at stopping for Prodigy HD2 users

[phantomax]

Hello,
with the new phase alignment feature we all are enjoying a new dimension in SQ : a full bodied and rich sound with an unbelievable clarity. But at the same time some of us are suffering plops when the music stops and this is a bite like an anticlimax. In my case this is worsened because I need to keep the attenuation level at -9 to get enough volume headroom.( BTW Peter, I don't know if it is technically possible, but if PA could engage at -6 it would be wonderful ).
But let's get to the point! If you down the volume slider to minimum in the Prodigy panel before the music stops the noise is almost non-existent.
It's a no ideal compromise solution but I think it's better than nothing.

Maxi

[PeterSt]

Hi Maxi,

What is the maximum net buffer size you can achieve with the Prodigy?
So, Device Buffer Size x Q1 x Q1Factor.

Try that without Phase Alignment and let me know.

Regards,
Peter

[phantomax]

Hello Peter,
the maximum device buffer in Prodigy panel is 1024 and currently Q1 is 14 and Q1 factor is 4.
Without PA active I've never had problems and whith PA active the only issue is the plop at stopping. I've never tried to change the volume in XX when running because I am sure there will be a noise.
Regards
Maxi

[PeterSt]

But is that the answer to my question ? I don't think so. Thus, it is good to know what your current settings are, but I want to know what you can still play with for max settings there. Ok ?

[phantomax]

Sorry Peter,
I didn't understand you well. I think your are asking for the maximum settings before some error message appears.
With 1024( maximun for Prodigy HD2 ), Q1 14 and Q factor 9 appears the following message:
" Because  the product of Device Buffer Size Q1 level and Q1-Factor. is higher than 122880, possibly only one track will play in Attended Mode. Continue?"

 When I try in unattended mode the message is as follow:
"Your SFS is too low to allow Unattended Playback. The equation is that 4128768 to be smaller than 2000000"

 After that, I have to set the SFS at 6 to play. Before it was at 2.

I hope this is the information you request.

Best regards,

Maxi

[PeterSt]

Yes, you are in the good direction now. Thanks.

Okay, now, never mind the message for Attended; you are not going to use it anyway (but you sure can try it to test your stops (just press stop at some stage). Now :

With your SFS=6 you actually reached a *minimum* for that combination. So, when you allow yourself for now to set the SFS higher (remember, 60 is a recommended setting) I still want to know what your max net buffer size is. Remember, this must play. So, not only avoid error messages (again, don't mind the message for Attended), but it must play well (SQ left alone for now).
Thus, set SFS to 60 and now what can the other parameters be (what is the max product of the 3 buffer parameters).

?

[phantomax]

Hi Peter,
Sorry for the delay. At SFS 60 and device buffer 1024 I can go as far as Q1 30 and Q1factor 40 without problems. So 1024x30x40=1.228.800... I think

Maxi

[PeterSt]

Ok, good. Now look what happens with Phase Alignment and Stop. Assumed that no plops are there (but a looong delay in everything), no work your way back until plops emerge again. Of course you can let it be as it is, and notice that this too is SQ related.
And oh, I am sure you can set the Device Buffer Size to 4096 as well (all 4 times larger again).

At working your way back, don't make too small steps. Just half it each time.

Notice that you will hear a large repeat at the end now and which repeat doesn't even end at the real end (like when a track normally ends playing).

All can be done with Attended. It is only that you now can play one track at the time.

Good luck !
Peter

[juanpmar]

Hi Peter,

I looked for my maximum net buffer size and I found that it is at SFS=60 and DBS=4096: Q1:14 and Qx:32

The sound is great also but the delay is big. Now, as you said to phantomax, I have to work the way back but I don´t understand well if I have to downsize the Qx factor or the SFS or both.

I observed that if I restart XX there is no crash at the start of the sound, otherwise the crack is there the same way as it is when I use Q1:14, Qx:1 and SFS:2.0

Juan
 
PS:

-Qx can´t be set at 2, it is impossible, it jumps between 1 and 3.

-The XX screen reappears as minimized when I use Alt+X, that happens once in a while, not always.

[PeterSt]

Btw: Qx can´t be set at 2, it is impossible, it jumps between 1 and 3.

Use up and down arrow ...

[PeterSt]

I have to work the way back but I don´t understand well if I have to downsize the Qx factor or the SFS or both.

Not the SFS. That remains as a last one to pull down as far as it goes without a message telling you it is too small (see Maxi's post).
But Juan, this is not related to you. You have no "plop" at stopping.

I observed that if I restart XX there is no crash crack at the start of the sound

You mean : when the UI is up and you play Attended that crack is there (x times), but when you close XX and restart, it is not there at a first attempt ?
Sure ?

[phantomax]

Hi Peter,
with Phase Alignment plops at stopping are still there ( and quite loud indeed ) with that settings (Device buffer 1024 SFS 60, Q1 30, Q1x 40)

Maxi

[juanpmar]

But Juan, this is not related to you. You have no "plop" at stopping.

Ok, I was just trying to see differences in SQ.

You mean : when the UI is up and you play Attended that crack is there (x times), but when you close XX and restart, it is not there at a first attempt ?
Sure ?

That happens with this settings: SFS60 an Q1:14 and Qx:32.

I play always as Unattended and if I play a track sometimes , not always, there is crack a little inside the track (a couple of seconds inside) not like before with the other settings (Q1:14, Qx:1, SFS:2) that the crack was at the same time when the track start.
But if I restart XX the crack is never there. Remember this is at SFS60 an Q1:14 and Qx:32.


Juan

[juanpmar]

Sorry, the crack is there again, I thought that restarting XX it was disappeared but not.

Juan

[praphan]

I have to work the way back but I don´t understand well if I have to downsize the Qx factor or the SFS or both.

Not the SFS. That remains as a last one to pull down as far as it goes without a message telling you it is too small (see Maxi's post).
But Juan, this is not related to you. You have no "plop" at stopping.

I observed that if I restart XX there is no crash crack at the start of the sound

You mean : when the UI is up and you play Attended that crack is there (x times), but when you close XX and restart, it is not there at a first attempt ?
Sure ?

Dear Peter,

I wish to join in to this discussion. I considered myself relatively lucky about crack, plop and tick syndrome with PA engaged.

At attended playback with net buffer of 4096x15x1 and SFS of 2, the only annoying sound I have is crackkkkk at the first start of any track. But if I stop that track and hit play again. No more crack. I think this is normal. Hitting stop did not really generate annoying plop but rather some sort of echo sound (improved at SFS of 20). Changing digital volume may or may not generate plop depending on track played.

I have not tried playback drive though. Still lag behind most of us here since I spend most of the time enjoying pure, silky smooth, live like music in my listening room. With dim lighting, seems like my speakers are not existed.

Best regards,
Praphan