Playback drive drive

[AlainGr]

Hi Peter,

Just plain curiosity, since I will not do it now, but is it possible to create 2 partitions on a drive and format one of them with XXHE ?

[PeterSt]

To install XXHE in ? Why not ...

[PeterSt]

PS: But supposed that partition is dedicated for XXHighEnd, give it the smallest blocksize possible and DO NOT use Copy to XX Drive. Instead now use that Intermediate Files folder which should be on a large block size volume *and* use the Playback Drive.
(maybe I never tested this combination, and I hope it works).

Can it get more complicated ? probably.
Haha

Peter

[juanpmar]

What I also wanted to know is if I must format with NTFS 64Kb blocksize also the drive where the OS and XX are.

No. But didn't you read that (new) section ? Edit : So the answer is NO.

No, I haven´t read it although I´ve tried, that´s because I can´t find it. Where is that Blocksize section?

Juan,

What I also wanted to know is if I must format with NTFS 64Kb blocksize also the drive where the OS and XX are.

Lastly keep in mind :
It is you and only you who wants the glitchless playback outside the usage of the Playback Drive. This is all right of course, but personally I wouldn't bother and certainly would not be obsessed about it. And honestly, most probably I too may get "glitches" when not using the Playback Drive. So, I do for maybe half a year now, and this was before Phase Alignment was developed. I never even tried without Playback Drive.

If I had known that a few days ago... Probably I haven´t understood you well before.

Thanks

Hi Juan, I think you should try to format the playback drive in the way you describe first. And then try it. It may work fine.

If it hasn't been formatted the way XX wants, you'll just get an error. In this case, you will have to use the command line and input format E: /fs:exFAT /q (taking E: as an example drive). BUT... I found that I had to run the command line in Administrator mode. To do this, I did a search for 'cmd.exe' in the Start menu and then created a shortcut for it on the desktop. I think went into Properties for the shortcut and set 'run as Administrator'. The format then seemed to work fine.

I have no idea what block size is created when you format from the command line but the drive definitely works OK as a playback drive.

Peter may have his own views, but quite honestly, I wouldn't go to the bother of reformatting the OS/XX drive just for a bigger block size if using playback drive solves any playback problems you currently have. If it doesn't, then maybe consider it.
HTH.

Thank you Mani, I´m now coping all the tracks of my music drive to another drive and after that I will format it, my only 2Tb music drive. I already formatted the Playback Drive but until I finish the whole process I can´t test it, maybe tomorrow. What I don´t know is if the tracks that were originally in a drive with NTFS (4096 bytes), as they were in my music drive, and I return that tracks again to the drive once it is formatted as NTFS (64kb) if that is correct or not or if I should rip again all the music.

I formatted the Playback Drive the way I use to, but if it doesn´t work I´ll follow the way you mention.

I won´t touch the OS/XX drive, let´s see if with what I´m doing now all is ok.

Thank you again.

One more thing :

You said you also hear ticks at changing the volume. Now careful :

These fairly small ticks are a bug in the program IF you hear them later than the volume changes. Actually they happen on SFS boundaries. So, that is unavoidable. BUT :
When you hear them at Start and Stop, it is logic (to me) that you hear them at the exact volume change point as well. So in that case you will hear two anomalies : one time at exact volume change which will be a somewhat louder plop, and after that (can be 10 seconds or more later easily) a less loud more "tick".

Peter

I can´t test it now but if I remember well I heard the ticks after some seconds after I applied the volume change.
I will test everything again with and without the Playback Drive once I finish the process of formatting drives.

Regards,

Juan

[Nick]

Peter, is there any theoretical reason that a faster playback drive (e.g. 10K SATA III vs. 7.2K SATA II) should sound better?

My super fast new SSD sounds bad, and my old Hitachi HDD very good and I just wondered whether I should think about getting a faster HDD for playback drive duties.

Mani.

My mother board returned fixed on Monday so spurred on by Mani's very helpful test of playback drive types I set up a playback drive this lunch time. I have just stopped listening for dinner 

I will try other drives that I have, but a 5600rpm seagate barracuda SATA II which is quite a basic drive, is really giving a great performance. Certainly better than playback direct from the 2tb WD black 7500 rpm SATA III that my music OS and XX are on. The sound is superb but it the consistency of sound using this setup that is so nice. It dosent matter what i am playing the "sound" is so consistently good.

Best,

Nick.

[BertD]

This is fun...

No idea how my old little LaCie USB2.0 30GB HDD 3.600RPM compares to a normal external HDD but this tiny disc (USB powered) sounds wonderful!

I have a spare one too! 

It’s a similar HDD as used in the older iPods and not the flash drives commonly used these days.

It is not the fastest in the world so I should not load 3 CD's at once but fast enough for one CD.

At first I partitioned my OS disc to create a dedicated partition as Playback Drive but that sounds flattish... worse than copy to XX (same drive!).

I will also test a normal older drive for use inside the PC and one externally to compare but not this evening...

...it’s time for some music first and relax.

Bert

[PeterSt]

Hi Juan,

A Guide to Glitchless Playback.

What I don´t know is if the tracks that were originally in a drive with NTFS (4096 bytes), as they were in my music drive, and I return that tracks again to the drive once it is formatted as NTFS (64kb) if that is correct or not or if I should rip again all the music.

Just copying sure will do.
Btw, ripping directly to a music disk is also a no-go for me. So, those blocks need also to be contiguous for max read speed, which they won't be much when you rip to the disk where you use it from. Copying does a better job at that. And never delete albums once they are there.
(this now goes into the ultimate performance details and I would not bother all *that* much about it)

Regards,
Peter

[boleary]

So I used a reformatted (NTFS 64kb) WD 5000H1Cs-00 drive that I purchase back in 2007. I think its 7200 rpm but I'm not certain--a quick google search didn't help answer that question. Anyway my first impression is that I need to spend  more time listening to really judge the merits of the playback drive versus the XX/OS/Music drive as described in my signature. With that said, my second impression is that the playback drive sounds similar to a SFS of 60 in Z7, whereas the XX/OS/Music drive sounds more like a SFS of 2 in Z7. So I think I don't like the playback drive as much as my current setup. This sound that I like has a freshness or presence that makes the music sound live--not as in a live recording but as in the artist is in my room as a real presence. Again though, I need to spend more time with this---20 minutes or so of AB-ing isn't enough.

[juanpmar]

After reading the Block Buster

One more thing :

You said you also hear ticks at changing the volume. Now careful :

These fairly small ticks are a bug in the program IF you hear them later than the volume changes. Actually they happen on SFS boundaries. So, that is unavoidable. BUT :
When you hear them at Start and Stop, it is logic (to me) that you hear them at the exact volume change point as well. So in that case you will hear two anomalies : one time at exact volume change which will be a somewhat louder plop, and after that (can be 10 seconds or more later easily) a less loud more "tick".

Peter

After I formatted my drives, the way it is explained in the Block Buster section of A Guide to Glitchless Playback, (thanks Peter), and using all the time the PlaybackDrive and Allow Phase Alig. On/ Phase Intensity=1/IPhase On/(+), I´m listening again music. I´m still hearing the ticks in the following situations:

- At the start of the album,only before the first track, quite big tick/ticks.

- When I change volume with Alt+U or Alt+D after a few seconds, smaller ticks than before.

- When I stops the music with Alt+S, I hear a small zump.

Regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

Juan,

- At the start of the album,only before the first track, quite big tick/ticks.

This is something else again. I mean, I know of this phenomenon and don't know where it is coming from (one PC has it, the other does not (my own exhibited this exactly never). If you have Garbage Collection On, you may try it with Off.

- When I stops the music with Alt+S, I hear a small zump.

If you listen carefully you will hear a repeat of the last buffer played. Increase your Q1Factor to 15 on so and that will be the most clear now.

So, all normal as far as normal can be at this moment.

Regards,
Peter

[boleary]

Hi Juan, I found that changing the NOS device buffer to 8ms helped control the ticks and plops in my system.

[juanpmar]

Thanks Peter, I had the Garbage Collection Off but with it On the ticks are a little less louder.

Thanks boleary, yes you are right with higher NOS Device buffer size I have less ticks but I like the sound with 2ms and I want to investigate further to see if I can avoid those ticks

Regards, Juan

PS. I´ve seen while writing this post that the new drivers for the dongles are ready. Too much work, but welcome anyway   

[PeterSt]

Btw, the situation I am talking about is a nice "crack" maybe 10 seconds into the track. Actually after pressing Play (Unattended and Attended). But I think this amount of time is SFS related. Otherwise it can be "net buffer size" related. Now, since you have this, maybe you can find out what makes it happen sooner or later into the (first) track (playing).

Thanks,
Peter

[PeterSt]

Also : someone/something else brought me the idea that it is "drive cache" related. So, in my case this is about a drive which can be ejected (like an USB stick or drive) but which (in my case !) just can be done like that because no write cache is enabled. I think this can be set for all disks, so also fixed. If you are able to change the setting for this, you might perceive a difference from there …

This is about the setting which says something like "less save" if the write cache is enabled. But no matter what, for us (outside ripping) this can always be enabled (so, be less safe). But whether the default is enabled or disabled I don't know. And think like this :

1.
When the write cache is enabled, the OS will write at some stage anyway (notice we talk about the Playback Drive !) and it just can be inconvenient for audio, while such writing will have priority over everything.

2.
When it is not enabled, there will still be some lag at writing (which we have just done to that PP drive !) and the "force" will even be greater to do it. So, even more hammering on audio.

So for both is something so say, were it about *creating* stalls in the stream. And, it will be related to the size of the Playlist as well but in a dangerous fashion. Something like : the more the album nicely fitted in (remaining) memory, the more a large burst of physically writing it to disk (PPD) will happen. The less it fits, the more smaller chunks will be written but merely : already will have been written before playback starts.

All I want to say is : when you find out what causes or eliminates what, I can make the solution for it.

Haha
But thanks.
Peter

[juanpmar]

I have the "crack" after I hit Play at the moment the first track starts to sound, once the image has disappeared from the monitor. However no more zumbs when I stop the music (maybe the Garbage Collection On fixed it up).

Sorry if I asked before but what´s "net buffer size", the Device Buffer Size or the USB Buffer Size in the Phasure NOS Control Panel?.
With the Device Buffer Size at e.g. 50ms the crack at the start is much less pronounced.


About your latter post: "Also: someone/something..." I´d like to add something also but I can´t, better I´ll wait to someone else find out what causes or eliminates what, so you can make the solution for it and let me know. 

Regards,
Juan