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Author Topic: HiRez & XXHighEnd  (Read 10952 times)
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pedal
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« on: June 11, 2012, 10:53:18 am »

[Moderator action : This was split from Praise for xxHighEnd because of relevancy not on-topic in there (or anyway this here is a discussion within itself)]


Hires does not yield better sound quality at all.

I disagree. "Hi-rez" is more than treble performance. It is certainly true that the XX/NOS1 consept of ARC Prediction and filterless DAC elevates digital playback to new heights including the most natural and "real" treble I have ever heard.

However, "hi-rez" is also the difference between 16 and 24 bit. The latter providing a more smooth, fluid and "ripe" sound, especially in the bass. There is more low level information and acoustical presence with good hi-rez recordings. Redbook 16/44 has a kind of intrinsic "dryness", which I didnt notice before discovering (good) hi-rez material.

Fortunately, with XX/NOS1 I can have the best of both worlds. Nowadays I almost exclusively listen to hi-rez. There is no going back. Once you pop it, you can't stop it!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 01:29:05 pm by PeterSt » Logged

Hardware: Stealth Mach III > Lush^2 > 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3  > active preamp > 3-way active XO > amps > ribbon/dynamic true line source speakers.

Settings all settings as recommended by Peter by October 2019.
praphan
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 12:11:21 pm »

Hi Pedal,

Thanks for correcting my statement which gives a wrong connotation.

I think I should rather stated that "Hires does not necessarily give a better sound quality". This is what Robert Harley explained in his article.

Of course, I also enjoyed quality Hires materials too. But with AP up sampling XXHE, I have to pay attention to hear the difference.

Thanks and regards,
Praphan
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PC: Asus X58 chipset M/B; Seasonic 850W PSU; i7 970 12 threads (HT=on); ATI HD 5770; Zalman Reserator water cooling, 24GB RAM, Plextor PX230A drive ; W7 Pro 64bit plain SP1 (no further update) and XXHE on Velociraptor; music on Sata 3 2 TB HDD; WD5003ABYX sits on Thermaltake USB3 dock as playback drive; Star Tech PCIe USB3 card

XX 0.9z-8-3a : KS Engine 4 "Adaptive"; DB = 4096; APx16; Q1/2/3/4/5 = 14x1/0/0/0/0; No Appointment/low/real time; CR = 0.5 ms; XTweaks Ultimate; SC; SFS= 120/120 ; allow format change; unattended ; min OS and stop "all" services; normalized volume usually played at -15db ;  peak extension on ; PA off

Signal chain: 24/786 NOS1 USB; 16 ms buffer on driver 1.0.2 => Valhalla XLR IC = > McIntosh 2301 tube monoblocks => Purist Dominus spk cable => B&W 802 D
pedal
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 01:08:46 pm »

I think I should rather stated that "Hires does not necessarily give a better sound quality". This is what Robert Harley explained in his article.
Yes, there are many "fake" hi-rez titles out there. And some titles sounds poor even from the mastertapes, so the hi-rez transfer is useless anyway. (Garbage in/garbage out).

Quote
But with AP XXHE, I have to pay attention to hear the difference.
I agree. Especially in the treble. (But XX can't make up for the difference in SQ between 16 and 24 bits, though).
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Hardware: Stealth Mach III > Lush^2 > 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3  > active preamp > 3-way active XO > amps > ribbon/dynamic true line source speakers.

Settings all settings as recommended by Peter by October 2019.
PeterSt
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 01:34:12 pm »

Quote
(But XX can't make up for the difference in SQ between 16 and 24 bits, though).

Hi pedal,

Totally unrelated to that I am the developer of XXHighEnd, but merely and foremost from a general perspective (of which you know I may have written hundreds of posts on the subject, although not in here) :

Can you qualify this by any means you can think of ?
And please, "listening" is not the answer, because I listen too, and I don't agree. So, what's left is theories and technical matters and outlays.

Or ?

Kind regards,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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boleary
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 01:58:52 pm »

I was listening to some hi res last night from Lin Records and HDTT( High Definition  Tape Transfers) I unticked "fx" and left all upsampling on. The sound was really, really nice. Pedal, do you leave updsampling off when ypou play hi res?
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
pedal
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 02:06:05 pm »

Quote
(But XX can't make up for the difference in SQ between 16 and 24 bits, though).

Hi pedal,

Totally unrelated to that I am the developer of XXHighEnd, but merely and foremost from a general perspective (of which you know I may have written hundreds of posts on the subject, although not in here) :

Can you qualify this by any means you can think of ?
And please, "listening" is not the answer, because I listen too, and I don't agree. So, what's left is theories and technical matters and outlays.

OK. Right now I am full of work, but I will revert in a couple of days with theoretical explaination and music examples!
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Hardware: Stealth Mach III > Lush^2 > 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3  > active preamp > 3-way active XO > amps > ribbon/dynamic true line source speakers.

Settings all settings as recommended by Peter by October 2019.
PeterSt
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2012, 08:25:16 am »


Hei pedal, take it easy on this one. You know that you are about the only one in here being quite explicit about Hires, and you also know that I usually go a bit against you. But it is *also* to be noted that it is and remains about the properly done ones, and that they virtually don't exist. So, have a real good example and it should work.

But you will remember the last time which went exactly the same; You picked the example and I trashed it. So there has to be something about subjectiveness as well. Therefore statements "out of the blue" are bound to be misleading (50% chance of course), and that is why I asked. But it shouldn't end up in me embarrassing you, just because you come up with an example which is technically completely wrong, but sounds good to you. Happy

We can (or maybe should) also leave it to the latter : what sounds good to you *is* good to you. Nothing wrong with that. One thing though : if the absolute merits are not good at all, "we" shouldn't be telling others that it's good. Again, that's why the question. And btw, you should always be able to come up with something good, because obviously 24 (native) bits are better than 16. Almost  Happy Happy no doubt about that.

And to stirr the pot a little, you may have read elsewhere about that setup blind test with a 24/96 original recording which was A u/i I mangled in all kind of directions, and that I was not only able to tell which was what, but where I also told which one "should win" because it sounded the best and therefore should be a downsampled one (to 24/44.1 IIRC). Too hard to explain in brief here, but it told me that what *I* hear all the time, even from good Hires, is still not better than downsampled stuff (like we peceive it from Redbook) and for which I have some explanations which will go beyond my time of explaining (again, now here). Could be interesting, but on this forum we tend not to be so challenging towards eachother, which merely has its foundation in trust or general satisfaction and a "who cares" further. In the end it *is* important though, because at least for me it is and remains about progression in audio and it's a fragile thing.
Plus I can't do that alone.

It would be my idea to let it rest for now, under the conditions that you will be correct if it's only about properly done Hires. That I claim they don't exist, or at least not in quantities that I could be listening to those only from now on (like you suggest) is something else. So, I desire to be correct on that one, and *that* could be a subject - already because it is not subjective to anything. We grab that graphing whatever software, and look. So, when you tell me that you can find something like 200 titles I could be listening to forever, assuming that 200 is enough, *then* I grant you to be right. But may you come up with 20 only, then I'm afraid the other (couple of 1000 I think) which exist are unlistenable compared to their Redbook counterparts.

Did I change the subject now somewhat ? I think so ...

All the best !
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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