Sorting Order

[CaOd]

Doing a new install on my machine, I have encountered a problem with the sorting order of the albums in the middle pane. The left pane shows the root data in alphbetical order (organized Artist backslash Title), but the cover arts are more less erratical (might be ripping date or whatever) Where and how to change this sorting in the middle pane? Thanks for quick help
Carsten

[Calibrator]

G'day Carsten,

was that screen shot the result of using the pop-up panel that allows you to select by date range "created" or "last modified" ? That function is chosen from the button just to the left of the "path name" box, which itself is just to the left of the " ... " button.  If you did, then the results in the middle panel are presented in the order of the system properties for the folder.

The fact that quite a number of entries are missing between "Alex Cine" and "Cold Play" suggests that may be the case. Not seeing your complete middle panel listing makes it a little difficult to be 100% sure, but judging by the size of the vertical scroll bar in relation to the total height suggests there are a significant number of albums not shown, which would be the case if you used the date range function.

If you right click on the left panel and chose the "Show Music Root" option, do they all then appear in correct order in the middle panel?

BTW, this all assumes you have a licensed copy of XXHE. If you are running in "DEMO" mode, then the total number of entries shown are limited to something like 100 or so.

Cheers,

Russ

PS. Nice selection of jazz albums amongst them

[PeterSt]

Hi there Carsten,

It is a bit difficult to speculate on what "happened" here. But, only things like Russ suggested can influence the normal sort order. Now let's say that you didn't do that (would be too obvious); then this is what happens :

First off, all is te most straight forward; what happens is that the folders show in alphabetical sequence. Yes, just folders. But which folders ? Well, this is determined by that textbox at the very bottom (just chopped of your screen shot).

So, albums are in folders and folders have names; while the album will be in a folder with the same name, it is this which gets sorted. Thus, on "album name".
But will it ?

This completely depends on a. how you organized your folders and b. what you ask for.
a. and b. mix ...

It is best to give you the example of where things will go strange - while actually it will be normal. It is a matter of understanding what happens :

Suppose you have those nice folder (album) names which show in the left pane. But now on that same level there's a "MyNewAlbums" entry. So, this sorts under L and above O. Howeverm it is not the "MyNewAlbums" entry which will show in the middle pane; it's the albums in there. And they sort from A-Z again. So now suddenly you will see an A album onder the O albums. And after the Z from that part, the N comes next.
I can't see that you did such a thing ("organisation with some mixed thoughts"), although the "Audio" entry looks suspicious. But then of course your list is must longer.
And remember, it is that text box at the bottom which determines what shows in the middle pane, and it can be changed outside of what shows in the left pane. The left pane is only a means to get that text box filled.

Important to keep in mind : the part you ask for (see textbox at the bottom) is the part which will *not* show in the middle pane. So, ask for \iMusic\ and exactly that part will not show;
Ask for \iMusic\Compilations\ and now that part will not show.

Now you know this, I'm sure you can find out what is going on.

Continuing ... the example of things getting mixed is that \Compilations\. But, as you can see it nicely shows under C and actually you would understand. So, something more must be going on, and my little brain can't tell what at this moment. However, I have an idea ...

It is possible that you have your storage on an UDF formatted disc. These tend to behave "outside of Windows". You can see that the most easily I think, by copying track 02-10 to a folder, and as the last one copy track 01. Now you should be able to see "somewhere" that track 01 remains at the bottom. Notice though that I forgot how to prove this. Could be a Dir command from a Dos Box (cmd). And, what I recall is that there's not much to do about this, but, I think some special driver can solve it ?
Anyway, do you recognize that those Tok Tok Tok albums where in there earlier than the ones below it ?

Hmm ...

Peter

[Eric]

Hi, let me contribute my observation.

What I notice in my setup is that the sorting order is exactly as described by Peter, as long as the textbox refers to a folder residing on an internal or external disc (USB2, USB3, eSATA,...). Could also be a Library (stored on an internal SSD), no problem.
However, when the music resides on my NAS, the order is not alphabetical. It does not bother me at all, because I only use my Library when playing.

I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Eric 

[PeterSt]

It does not bother me at all, because I only use my Library when playing.

You mean Gallery, right ?
(otherwise your emphasis would be on "playing" ... and then I don't understand )

Thanks Eric,
Peter

[CaOd]

Thanks for all the help, so far no success. Strangely, also an external disk connected via USB with the same file structure that worked perfectly on my old machine shows the same strange sorting order on my new machine.
I think they are both FAT32 formatted.

Peter, I have the strange feeling that your last hint might go into the right direction, although I don´t know yet how to approach.

This might ruin my family Easter Sunday.... expect trouble with my wife...

Cheers Carsten

[CaOd]

Eric, thanks for your observations, that might be a hint! Without knowing the deep insides of these computers, could it be that the connectors (in my case the USB and the internal SATA connector of the 2nd HDD (former opticaldirve)) have to have a different driver / setup to work properly?

Thanks Carsten

[PeterSt]

FAT32 could be the problem, although I never tested it or heard from anyone about it. What I do know though, is that from off W2K the "table of contents" (TOC) of discs is kept in memory and as far as I remember that was also for the first time NTSC came about. In either case, from off W2K the sorting was normal, while before it always was the way I described for UDF formatting.

What Eric described for his NAS looks similar to me; this has its own small OS, and it will not keep its entries in memory there (sorted that is !) while the Windows OS won't do anything about it, because the NAS should arrange for it.
In the mean time XXHighEnd also doesn't do a thing about the sorting, because it expects the OS to have arranged for it. And also, explicitly applying the sorting is a sheer no-go because of the way all is setup.

To me it seems just a too long shot to blame FAT32 for this (but see my first paragraph above), and to prove it you could format a USB stick with FAT32 vs NTCS and see what happens there. So, copy 5 or so folders from your music disc taken from normal alphabetical sequence in Explorer, and lastly add one folder which is above the first one of the 5 you copied earlier. Create the same iMusic structure on it, and ask for it in XXHighEnd. I'd say if this is the problem, both FAT32 and NTSC must show different in XXHighEnd.

All 'n all it is strange that I never heard anyone about this.
Where those discs you have the problems with now the same with your old machine ?

Peter

[CaOd]

Copied 6 Albums on a FAT32 formatted USB stick and seem to be ok...????

[PeterSt]

And the 3 Adèles were copied after Tok Tok Tok was copied ?

[PeterSt]

Assuming Yes, it is more complicated; Are the Dates of creation maybe the same as the originals (where you copied from) ? If Yes, you must first find suitable albums for this test. Like Tok Tok Tok and Coldplay (see your first picture).

[Eric]

It does not bother me at all, because I only use my Library when playing.

You mean Gallery, right ?
[/quote]

Yes, I mean Gallery.

Carsten, I wonder if your problem could be solved by using a Gallery.
Independently of the fact that it would be nice to understand how the sorting works (or not).

Cheers
Eric

[Eric]

FWIW
The sorting mechanism in explorer is different from how albums are displayed in the second pane. There are small differences. For example, look at an artist name like Özay. The character "ö" ends up in a different place. Not that it is a problem, but it is good to know that there are differences. 

Cheers
Eric

[CaOd]

Hi Peter,
sorry, I had made a mistake. When copying the files to the stick, I copied "Adele" first. This time, I have copied "TokTokTok" first, then added Adele and the sorting order is wrong again!

Does that help you to get closer to a solution?

Many thanks!!!

Carsten

[PeterSt]

Well, did you also try NTFS ? If that helps, then that is the solution ...
(not that you will like it ...)

Any real reasons to use FAT32 ?