PCIe USB 3.0 host card

[Nick]

They are made with exactly the same settings.
The USB3 driver part of the graph is almost twice as high as the USB2. USB3 peaks at 8%, USB2 at 5% (as you can see). The flat part is 5% on USB3 and 3% on USB2.

I took the best looking USB3 shot to illustrate the difference in load. I have pics where the driverpart is hardly recognisable.

yesterday I updated the mobo Etron USB3 driver to the latest version (21-3-2012), but still I get the "set pauze on pin error". Strangely enabling the USB3 on the mobo did something positive to the sound of the PCIe USB3.

regards, Coen 

Coen hi,

I looks like the peaks in USB CPU usage may be a known issue with a Microsoft Patach available, take a look at this Microsoft  tech note. This may explain why others have also been getting cracking sounds. It looks like the peak happens about every 15 seconds with the faulty drivers.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/981214

Best regards,

Nick.

[CoenP]

Thanks Nick,

Very interesting. Is this fix not part of the sp1 update? According to Peter the peaks are the result of xx playing. You have no peaks?

Regards, Coen

[Nick]

Thanks Nick,

Very interesting. Is this fix not part of the sp1 update? According to Peter the peaks are the result of xx playing. You have no peaks?

Regards, Coen

Coen hi,

I have not checked for peaks on my setup, but take Peters point about the SFS bursts in CPU.

My thinking was that quite a few folks are using versions of W7 without updates so it could be that some are using the older versions of the USB????.sys files and this this might be causing CPU peaks and the cracking sounds when switching to USB3.

Best,

Nick.

[PeterSt]

Trust me, all I see in those graphs looks perfectly normal to me. It's only that there's a slight difference between USB2 and USB3. Maybe I have that too, but because the difference is so small I didn't notice.

Try to look at the core where the diver runs as it always consuming the same CPU on average. But first : try to change the settings I mentioned earlier ... if you had done that I'm sure you would have posted other things by now. So, even the comparison between your USB2 and USB3 seems equal for that average.
Thus please try some of those settings. It will take your thinking away from something "bad". IOW, what you see is the most normal ... ehh ... for only one of those combinations of (settings) possibilities ...

Peter

[PeterSt]

Djeezz, things go fast ...

Last night I had the idea something was wrong, and I had the notion it could be about some (XXHighEnd) setting I applied. But, I rather liked to be ignorant and blame USB3.

Undid further tweaks you out there don't have, step by step, undid that possible causing setting, and ended up all the way up to USB2. So, all "native" again. Problem was gone.

But I found it unlistenable. Quite raw or how to describe it. Like I told before. "Distortion" compared to the new reference (USB3).

As slowly built up everything again but left out that XXHighEnd setting. All still good.


Ok, the above is a too long story for a one liner which could tell that something must be wrong with USB2 which is right with USB3.
But part of it is that I didn't want to "know" that some XXHighEnd setting didn't work out. Anti-pacebo or something. But it was that setting, and as a means to prove it I listened to all the small tweak-parts I applied lately, and the base of that was USB2. Well, we must be careful, because USB2 is not the best as it seems ...

Peter

[manisandher]

Oh no, I've just had my first BSOD in 2-3 years I guess.
(The last time was when I tried a PCI extender to use with my RME PCI card.)

I've just received a cheap (€11) 'Teck Net' PCIe USB 3.0 card from Amazon, which has the NEC/Renesas chip. With the Renesas driver installed, the card works with all other USB 2.0 devices I've tried... except the NOS1. When the NOS1 is connected, as soon as I launch XX, I get the BSOD.

The Renesas driver is version 2.1.28 and the firmware 4015. I've looked hard and long on Google but can't find newer driver/firmware.

Of course, I'm not worried about losing €11, but would love to be able to compare this PCIe card with my mobo USB 3.0 ports.

Any ideas?

Mani.

[Nick]

Oh no, I've just had my first BSOD in 2-3 years I guess.
(The last time was when I tried a PCI extender to use with my RME PCI card.)

I've just received a cheap (€11) 'Teck Net' PCIe USB 3.0 card from Amazon, which has the NEC/Renesas chip. With the Renesas driver installed, the card works with all other USB 2.0 devices I've tried... except the NOS1. When the NOS1 is connected, as soon as I launch XX, I get the BSOD.

The Renesas driver is version 2.1.28 and the firmware 4015. I've looked hard and long on Google but can't find newer driver/firmware.

Of course, I'm not worried about losing €11, but would love to be able to compare this PCIe card with my mobo USB 3.0 ports.

Any ideas?

Mani.

Mani hi,

Just checked my card with the same Renesas chip I think, the driver reported is 2.0.34.0. PM me if you would like to give it a try.

Best,
Nick.

[manisandher]

... the driver reported is 2.0.34.0.

Hi Nick, thanks for this. After trying a few things, I stumbled upon this version of the driver myself, an hour or so before I saw your post. In any event, it has done the trick. Everything now works as expected (see attached jpeg).

And the sound? Well, very, very nice indeed. This £10 PCIe card may well end up being the best investment I've ever made in hifi. Thanks so much for letting us all in on this Nick.

And I'm still only using the standard USB cable provided with the NOS1. I've also just received a blue USB 3.0 cable and cheapo A-B USB adaptor. The only slight issue I have is that I had to order a 5m length of USB 3.0 cable, in anticipation of installing Le Monster in its permanent resting place in the cellar. I suspect this length may have a detrimental affect on the sound, but I really have no choice as Le Monster simply cannot stay in the listening room. I'll probably order a 1.5m length of USB 3.0 cable also just to hear how much the sound suffers with a longer length.

Thanks again Nick. This is a simply superb tweak.

Mani.

[Nick]

... the driver reported is 2.0.34.0.

Hi Nick, thanks for this. After trying a few things, I stumbled upon this version of the driver myself, an hour or so before I saw your post. In any event, it has done the trick. Everything now works as expected (see attached jpeg).

And the sound? Well, very, very nice indeed. This £10 PCIe card may well end up being the best investment I've ever made in hifi. Thanks so much for letting us all in on this Nick.

And I'm still only using the standard USB cable provided with the NOS1. I've also just received a blue USB 3.0 cable and cheapo A-B USB adaptor. The only slight issue I have is that I had to order a 5m length of USB 3.0 cable, in anticipation of installing Le Monster in its permanent resting place in the cellar. I suspect this length may have a detrimental affect on the sound, but I really have no choice as Le Monster simply cannot stay in the listening room. I'll probably order a 1.5m length of USB 3.0 cable also just to hear how much the sound suffers with a longer length.

Thanks again Nick. This is a simply superb tweak.

Mani.

Mani hi,

I am very pleased to hear that the card works so well. I suspect that the native PCIe connection gives a very low transfer latency for the audio stream which is good. Of course it could also be a good driver for this chipset as well.

Looking at the architecture for the 3960 I have a feeling you may have the best platform available right now  It's interesting to get information on the comparative sound of mobo v's PCIe USB particularly in your system as I think I may shortly have a very similar setup. Thanks.

I have been trying different USB cables that I have about the house. Using a blue USB cable changes sound in my system but not clearly for the better more "just different". As it happens for a week of so I'v been using a 5m cable (thinking that the length may help to attenuate some pc generated noise). I don't know if it really helps with noise, but I can say that you shouldnt have too much to worry about using the long cable 

One quick question did you go for the Sabertooth x79 board ? The only thing it dosent do that I would like is that it only has one ps2 connection so its hard to keep both the mouse and keyboard off USB.

Best,
Nick.

Ps try shutting the mobo USB off in bios (best) or device mgr, that should give an improvement  too.

[Nick]

Hi,

Another thing to try if using USB 3 is setting to scheme 1. It seems the differences are easier to hear now. Scheme 3 was my favorite using USB 2 but with USB 3 scheme 1 seems to be a good deal more detailed and smoother at the same time.

Regards,

Nick.

[manisandher]

Hi Nick, will give Scheme 1 a go.

I went for an Asus P9X79 WS mobo. This does indeed have two ps/2 ports, so a non-USB mouse and keyboard shouldn't be a problem. The only minor annoyance with this mobo is that although you can disable USB 3.0 in the BIOS, you can't disable USB 2.0 there (the only option given is to disable 'legacy' USB 2.0). It seems strange that no option is given, but after hours of looking, I can't find it.

Mani.

[Nick]

I went for an Asus P9X79 WS mobo.

Mani.

Really good spot, solves the mouse / keyboard issue over USB. The only problem is that this was my last excuse for holding off so this is going to be expensive 

Nick.

[Scroobius]

Hey Mani - thanks for the post and it seems that your experience is that the PCi USB3 is better than the mobo USB3.

I had been wondering what to do with the now vacant PCi slot in my PC since the old NOS interface was removed. So what better than to fill it with a new NOS USB3 PCi card. So it is now on order and just wondering if it is possible to improve the sound even further. I have to say that the improvement in my system with USB3 PE *on* is really significant. The sound can't possibly be improved - surely not? well it is worth the small investment to find out.

Cheers

Paul

[manisandher]

... it seems that your experience is that the PCi USB3 is better than the mobo USB3.

I think we have to be a bit careful here. I've only just now had a chance to really listen and compare them, with the USB2.0 controllers disabled.

Well, they certainly sound different. The mobo USB3.0 port (ASMedia driver) sounds 'softer' and in a way 'sweeter'. But everything is perhaps a tad too 'rounded off', though this makes for a very pleasant and easy-to-listen-to sound. In contrast, the PCIe USB3.0 port (Renesas driver) sounds 'clearer' and 'cleaner'. But it can sound a bit forward and 'hard-edged' at times. (I just hope this isn't due to increased noise in the system - things can be so deceptive).

In both cases, the XX settings can be changed to make the sound more acceptable. With the mobo USB3.0, I found that Scheme 3 and SFS=430 sounds pretty good. With the PCIe USB3.0, I found Scheme 1 (thanks Nick) and SFS=470 sounds good. Right now, my preference is with the PCIe USB3.0. That clarity is just addictive.

Oh and the 5m USB3.0 cable with A-B USB adapter works fine. I've been doing all this evening's listening with this cable and, if anything, actually prefer it to the standard 1.5m USB2.0 cable that came with the NOS1. It sounds smoother.

In total, I paid less than £20 for the PCIe card, the 5m cable and the adapter. What a tweak!

Mani.

[Scroobius]

Thanks Mani - I am finding that these USB3 tweaks are making such significant differences to sound quality that it is worth the small outlay to find out. On the (slightly) downside I have to wonder if we will ever remove the effect of the computer on sound quality.

Do you use a Molex to power the card? and if so does it make any difference to SQ?

Paul