Best pc mouse connection for SQ?

[CoenP]

The forum is a little qiet now so here's a little reading for you all.

Following on the suggestion to disable the igp to quieten the cpu some more I ordered a low end Radeon 5450 HTPC videocard. I've been experimenting with this 'Passive' and silent solution (there was once a time videocards did not need active cooling) to get some new insights.

I have to say I sighed of relief when I ripped it out of the pc after many hours of frustration. First about fixing the !@&?! thing in its slot, secondly about the software that is cr*p to the operation of xx. My clockres was frequently hijacked and then some gremlins launched a truckload of services into operation that were hard to kill. It was a pita to sweep the pc clean from all the unneccesary stuff. Next time i am allways going to perform a custom install with only the driver and that was't even the 'preferred mode of operation' for this setup.
And last but no least about the compressed, hazy and chunky sound that no matter what I did refused to change its character for the better. Now i am listening to the naturalness and musicality that are the great traits of the signature nos1 usb setup (as far as I am concerned of course). Furthermore I allmost got a cardiac arrest from extremely loud pops in a reboot sequence. If these are the infamous switch off pops, start to distrust your videocard as this is shurely related. Note that thare are pops in my usual setup but not as loud by a far margin.
Oh and above sq observations were with the monitor off by xx!

What can we learn from this? Well maybe the igp is not such a bad idea afterall. Its powerconsumption has to be lower that the 5450, that btw gets freakin hot (like musical fedelity A1 hot), doing nothing. You also can't get any better communication between cpu and gpu if such a thing matters when the monitor is turned to sleep. Imagine all those bits travelling on the PCIE bus to the soundcard and sharing their lanes with precious disc IOs. With the IGP all you have to do is make shure the graphics clock is set to the lowest possible level and you're in business.
On the positive side, the graphics flied like never before with the card on place.

Maybe someone else can share his (her?) findings on this mouse and soundcard thing.

Happy listening,

Regards, Coen

[juanpmar]

Hi Coen,

I use also a passive graphic card and never had a problem. No pops at all and great sound. So maybe the problem is not in the graphic card but in the way both cards, the integrated one and the GA-Z68X-UD3H relate each other.

I can´t help you directly because I don´t use an integrated card but reading the specification of your Gigabyte mb it says:

Expansion slots: 
1 x PCI Express x16 slot, running at x16 (PCIEX16)
* For optimum performance, if only one PCI Express graphics card is to be installed, be sure to install it in the PCIEX16 slot.

1 x PCI Express x16 slot, running at x8 (PCIEX8)
* The PCIEX8 slot shares bandwidth with the PCIEX16 slot. When the PCIEX8 slot is populated with a PCI Express graphics card, the PCIEX16 slot will operate at up to x8 mode.

Maybe all of that has something to do with the problem you have.

Btw, this is my graphic card: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3584#ov.

and here also a new interesting silent card: http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1159&pid=1471&psn=&lid=1&leg=0

Best regards,
Juan

[CoenP]

Hi Juan,

According to bios settings the igp is disabled when another graphics card has been inserted. I cannot explicitly disable the igp. I used it on the 16x slot.

Maybe you're right and is some stuff still running on the igp graphics side. I also distrust any extra loading of the psu, it should be able handle the extra 15watts easily, but probably with some extra noise on the important 12v supply.

Do you have any gigabyte graphics supporting software running?

Regards, Coen

[juanpmar]

Hi Coen,

No, I don´t have any extra software installed, just the gp drivers, but to tell you the truth now I don´t remember if I installed the drivers from the cd that came in the box or if I downloaded it. As I never had a problem I wasn´t worried about it. Maybe some other people with both gpi and dedicated cards installed can help. Anyway, I don´t think the problem is due to if the gp is passive or not, could you try with other gp to see what happens?. Try also with the most recent drivers of your passive gp.

Best regards,
Juan

[CoenP]

Thanks Juan,

I will give it another shot on the 8x slot and with the latest driver. If it is a motherboard/chipset thing I should end up with similar -cr*ppy- results.

In the mean time Peter is tapped into the multiverse and preparing xx07 to new groundbreaking heights. Like all I am on the verge of boiling with anticipation!

Regards, Coen

[boleary]

Has anyone ever tested whether an igp is better for SQ than a dedicated card? As Coen stated above, an igp would use a lot less power. Is there any similarity concerning the effect on SQ between usb mouse, keyboard and a dedicated video card and PS/2 mouse, keyboard and an integrated video card?

Just wondering....

[CoenP]

Fwiw I did a brief comparison in the post above. Yet I have a board with integrated graphics that might interfere with the card. If that is true a comparison is only possible with different boards/chipsets and then it is very hard to isolate the influence.

I haven't been checking all options but sofar the mouse is less detrimental to SQ in my setup than the card. The effects of the usb mouse are more subtle.

I encourage anyone with integrated graphics to put my observations to the test.

Regards, Coen

[gsbrva]

I think it's too much generalizing to say that integrated graphics are better for SQ.

I've assembled many computers over the years for my personal use.  Some were great from the start, others were lemons.  Usually with the lemons, after some time I would discover one of the following problems:

1)  Bad power supply - works but is providing dirty power for whatever reason - sagging voltages or noise

2)  Bad memory chip in either main memory or graphics

3)  Something running hot - usually a bridge chip that should have had a big heatsink or a fan in the original design.

4)  Bad driver for some piece of hardware.

I'd say half of all the machines I put together had some sort of hardware problem.  Often it's the kind of thing you only notice if you use the computer a lot and have a feel for it.  I would blame myself, but I've found major brand computers to have similar defects. 

Don't trust the hardware.  If you are getting odd or inconsistent results start swapping parts until you track it down.

I'd be very surprised if a cpu had any characteristic sound of it's own.  Likewise for graphics chips, unless a particular card is defective or poorly designed.

Hey Coen,

I asked before if your monitor power cord was grounded.  I find that to be a bad idea, even if it's plugged into the same outlets as the computer.  I'm not sure if I understood your answer, but if you are not lifting the monitor ground, you might give it a try.  Let it ground through the shield of the graphics cable.  On my system grounding the monitor is a problem, even if it's turned off.  With analog CRT type monitors, you could see the circulating ground currents in the picture if you looked carefully. 

This is an interesting test.  How about disconnecting the monitor cable from the port on the computer.  Does that have an effect on the sound?  Maybe you did that already.

Greg

[PeterSt]

I think it's too much generalizing to say that integrated graphics are better for SQ.

Hi Greg - Maybe I didn't follow everything to the letter, but without that I'd say nobody is saying this. It can turn out to be the result of course, but in advance ...

In advance I myself merely think it will be the other way around. Based on nothing much though.

and ...

I'd be very surprised if a cpu had any characteristic sound of it's own.

They won't. But it is the enviroment, or what they have to do which sure *does* give that signature. So, for example, load all the graphics stuff on to the normal CPU, and I'm fairly sure sound will be bad. CPU stayed the same ...

Peter

[CoenP]

I have qualified the seperate videocard finally as unlistanable in my system. Actally the 'working' variant with IGP doen't deliver either but remains listanable. Unfortunaletly it has that 'yawn, could I care less about this good sound?' kind of quality. A cardinal sin in my opinion.

The story is of course not over. The mobo is heavily suspect. Reinstalling the atom immediately improved on the 'wow this is great music' factor, booted faster and was completely silent. I have been noticing a high pitched noise from my pc. That I attribited to a relocated HD, but this nooise is absent on the atom.

Save for handling (where it all started) the atom is superior on all accounts save for the highs in percussive elements. Let's not forget the two ps/2 ports that are the origin of this thread.  Maybe I gan get it to work -my way- with a different mobo. Since Peter frequently mentions the highs to indicate improvements there must be some untapped potential in the i5.

Now I am going to enjoy music again in anticipation of 09z7.

Regards, Coen

[boleary]

Just wondering if anyone with a newer mobo with only one PS/2 connection has tried using a PS/2 splitter (they exist) to hook up both mouse and keyboard?

[CoenP]

Hi,

I did this and it didn't work. The splitter is not in the formal dual ps2 port standard which is an OR configuration. It was assumed that either the mouse or keyboard use USB.

The custom implementation of a two function AND PS/2 combiport has been in use with mostly older laptops that were supplied with the splitters in the cable set.

The manual of any modern mobo will quickly inform you about the OR nature of this port.

Unfortunately.

Regards, Coen

[boleary]

Thanks Coen. Learn something new every day.