Quantum Heaven

[Scroobius]

I have just made a very substantial improvement to my system. But I wanted to try and present a logical and considered appraisal so here is some background, what it is and why it works (possibly?). So I make no apologies for this fairly lengthy post.

Background - I have always been cynical about silver cables – not so much *whether* they make a difference but more *why*.  After all if we don’t know *why* how can we know if we have properly addressed the problem. Enter ByBee internal speaker bullets.

What do they do? – reduce “electron” noise so producing a smooth signal or charge flow (electrons travel slowly and signal / charge travels in the region of the speed of light).  In other words they reduce the noise caused when electrons get smashed up passing through the crystal lattice in wires, crossover components, amplifier components et al. It just seemed to me that all a piece of wire has to do is transfer a signal from point A to point B without affecting the signal / charge flow and if ByBee’s worked then they did so by addressing a very fundamental thing.

Oh Yea! – as a cynic that’s what I thought – but reconsidered when I read that the technology was invented by a physicist under contract to the US Navy to reduce electrical noise in submarines so that sensitive Sonar could work better. To me much more interesting than the spotty faced Oik at the local hifi shop trying to flog me silver wire at a stupid high price.

Tests – I did some simple tests to find out the following:

1.   Do silver speaker cables make a difference to sound quality?
2.   Do ByBee bullets make a difference to sound quality?
3.   Which makes the biggest difference Bybee or Silver cable?
4.   Do silver speaker cables make a difference to sound quality when ByBee bullets are installed?

Results of Tests – I use very cheap copper speaker wire in my bi amped GainClone system (see http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1575.msg17981#msg17981). So I borrowed expensive silver speaker cable from my mate David. First I put my system back to single amplifier operation and got used to the sound (with my cheapo copper speaker cables). Then I installed the silver speaker cables. The result a definite improvement more refined and better delineated sound but I have to say after a period of listening there was a bit of an edge to the sound but I think that might have been caused by the use of PE plastic covering albeit loose covered (who knows that is just a guess).

Test 1 result – silver speaker wire does significantly improve sound quality but not without some reservations with the particular wires I tried.

Test 2 result –ByBee bullets installed by soldering one to each of the 4 drive units in my speakers so 8 eight ByBee’s in all.  I switched the system back on and started to play some jazz “Double R B” – immediately the first thing I noticed was that the tape hiss on this old recording was more noticeable not in a bad way just that there was more detail – and then the music started –the improvement was clear –more detail, clearer, better bass, more rounded sound, speakers really disappearing, better imaging, more dynamic but all this presented with a really smoth delivery. I have to say this was a jaw dropping improvement in sound quality to these ears anyway. But see the note of caution below.

Test 3 results – ByBee bullets produced a much bigger improvement than silver speaker wire. There is absolutely no contest – and without any reservations at all, they make a big improvement with no downside. And remember that this is with my cheap copper speaker cables (they cost me £30 including delivery but took some time to prepare and terminate).

Test 4 results – for me this is by far the most interesting test. With the ByBee’s installed I changed my cheap copper speaker wire for silver wire. If there was no difference then the indications have to be that bullets address a fundamental issue and silver only addresses a part of that issue. The result – I tried but I really could not hear any significant difference between copper wire and silver wire with the ByBee’s installed. I tried four times (it is not possible to do a quick side by side comparison in my system and it takes time to change everything over). If there is a difference then it is not clear to me. I guess the point is that even if there is a difference it is not as big as the difference without ByBee bullets installed.

Conclusion – it does appear to me that ByBee Bullet’s address a real fundamental issue. The improvement in my system is very substantial and fundamental. My ByBee Bullets are on 30 day approval but there is no way they are going back – these babies (or bybees?) are staying – for good.

Note Of Caution –  the above is they way it sounds TO ME in MY SYSTEM I would hate to be responsible for anyone buying these on my recommendation and being disappointed. But you could always get them on 30day approval do some tests and see what you think.

Are they expensive? – yes but if you compare them with silver wire (even cheap silver speaker wire in my system would be over £4k) then they look like a bargain to me. 

So MANI (AKA GOLDEN EARS) my system has evolved substantially recently with first the SP1 change and now the ByBee’s. If you are passing by you would be more than welcome to come along for a listen again. But this time I WANT A RIDE IN THAT NSX!!!!!

P.S. as usual I am told the ByBee Bullets need at least 200 hours to give their best. Mine have about 50 hours on now and already they are improving. To think they could be better - now that is an interesting thought.

Best regards to all you similarly afflicted HIFI addicts

Paul

[Nick]

Paul hi,

A great finding and very interesting to hear about the tests and the effect of the bybees. I have been interested in the theory bybees but given the costs had not really concidered trying them. Our systems are so similar however that if I can stump up the cash they would proberbly be a good upgrade here as well.

Its funny you should mention tape hiss being more prominant, I am having a bit of a problem with tape hiss when I play at 8 or 16 x up sampling. I wonder if I could ask you to do a small test. Could you try the recording that has the tape hiss but play it with up sample rate set to 176k (4x) and 88k (2x). With these settings is there and change to the amount of hiss you hear ?

Best regards,

Nick.

[Flecko]

Hey Paul, thanks for the test. I always thought these bybee bullets are something from the snakeoil party but it seems to be different. One question to the comparison between the silver and copper cables: Do the compared cables have the same diameter of conducting surface, the same geometry and the same isolating material?  No offence, but otherwise you would have an systematik error which leads to, that you cannot draw any conclusion from the comparison between the silver and copper cable, except that the ONE cable sounds better then the OTHER. But that says nothing about the quality of silver and copper as conductor in a cable.
What I found very interesting is the statement that the differences betwen the cavbles vanishes when the bybees are used. That would meen, if the cables are realy different in their geometry and isolation material, the bybees reduce the effects of capcitance, inductance and the dielectric. That is surprising to me.
Greetings
Adrian

[juanpmar]

Hi Paul,

I know very well the Bybee purifiers because my Spectron amps have they installed. This is from the Spectron site:

Super-Effect Bybee Purifiers - it adds a different quality; the palpability, presence and 3D body that up to now only a tube amp, particularly SET could provide. The Super-Effect Bybee Purifiers are described in more detail by Bybee Technology (see Golden Goddess 'Super Effect' Speaker Bullets) http://bybeetech.com/products.asp. The main difference is that we install these filters between the transformer and the diode bridges where their effect is maximum.

I had a previous version of Spectron without the Bybee and what I can tell is that there is a notable difference with the latest version with it installed, now the sound is smoother and more vivid and yes more 3D (huge in fact with the monoblocks).

About silver/copper cables, I have a different experience than yours,  I yes noticed a difference, I don´t know if your different position of the Bybee in your speakers could make it unnoticeable in your system.
I´m using now copper cables, well, in fact I´m using copper for the mids/highs and silver for the bass but I´ve been using for some time silver cables in the whole system and I´ll probably return to test again the silver cables with the NOS1 USB now in the system to see how they sound.

About the price of the silver speaker cables you have tested WOW! 4k GBP is really high, how many meters you need?.  The silver cables I have have a reasonable price and I like them very much in my system, although of course I don´t know what speaker cables were you talking about and maybe there is not a possible comparison in between yours and mine:
 
Tempo Electric:http://www.tempoelectric.com/cables.htm

Clear Day cables (which I liked more than the Tempo Electric):
http://www.cleardaycables.com/

Juan

[Scroobius]

Hey Adrian, Nick & Juan - wow isn't hifi complicated!!!! - I suppose that is what makes it so interesting. I guess the first thing is that yes the geometry of the cables is different. But the important thing is that there was a very significant difference in silver versus copper before installing the Bybee's but there was not afterwards. So if I went back and changed geometry diameters etc would that change the result - I really have to think that it would not particularly if you read my experiences below - but hey more than anyone I really do know that I could be wrong.

If you have a look at some of my other posts (not sure if it is clear though) I think that the really bad thing is plastic coating on speaker cables - the geometry etc makes a difference (more thinner wires for HF units is a good thing - which is what I ended up with) but that is the icing (but quite significant) on the cake really - but hey that is only my experience on limited tests. Also see below I am not convinced that plastic coating creates capacitance problems I think it is something else. But what? well there are theories out there like MDI. And do ByBees remove the bad effect of plastic coating well that would be really interesting - and I would like to test that one out but it would take time that I do not have.

Re the comments on capacitance inductance and resistance I do not think they are relevant to the Bybee's as they will not have any affect on these parameters. But this is where it gets complicated my view on these (for what its worth) is:

Resistance - not important so long as it is low and if you have sensible amps there should be no effect. And by the way I think when people speak about damping factors it is total hogwash resistance of speaker cable is tiny and will not affect damping factors at least not compared with other factors in the output circuit like speaker coil resistance etc.

Capacitance - some basic calculations will show that the capacitance of even the worst cables with the worst plastic coating will produce tiny capacitance in parallel with the output of the amp. Any half decent amp will not notice it at all. Well maybe someone is going to correct me but I would be interested to hear a convincing technical argument that capacitance matters.

Inductance - This should be a big deal in most systems and should be as low as possible. Is that a problem? - not at all just twist the wires together properly and inductance problems become very small (if you do it right).

But then that leaves us with quantum effects on electrons - not easily understood by mere mortals (even Einstein gave up on that one - ie "god does not throw dice") but that is where Bybee's enter courtesy of very clever physicists !!

Oh by the way Juan with bi amped speakers I need 24 meters of silver cable so more expensive for me probably than most.

But I really only wanted to let everyone know what my findings were on fairly limited listening tests at the very least if anyone is interested try these units on 30 days money back guarantee but please please please do not take my word for it.

The only thing I know for an absolute fact is that the sound quality I get now is improved by a very large amount due to the Bybees.

Nick that sounds really interesting I will check out what you have suggested in the next couple of days (when I am not listening to music) and let you know.

All the best and happy listening
 
Paul

[PeterSt]

Paul,

But the important thing is that there was a very significant difference in silver versus copper before installing the Bybee's but there was not afterwards.

1. Do the comparison *now* without the Bybees (of the quote above wasn't about that in the first place);
2. When the difference is there again, run the Densen Demagic track. Try again.
3. When the difference has gone at #1, no need to run the Densen Demagic track (it won't make a difference anymore (ehm, obviously ?)). At least not at this time (after a week or so not using the Bybees, yes).

Ad 2.
When the difference has gone now, get yourself (ha ha) the Densen Demagic CD (which consists of one 3 minute track only ). It saves you a lot of money.
Send me an email if you want to try it fast ...

Peter

[juanpmar]

Peter,

Do you mean that demagnetizing the system eliminates the differences between cables?.

Probably all you know this article, please read the #1 The cables lie (the others are also interesting):

The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio: http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

Juan

[Scroobius]

Hi Peter - oh WOW take my speakers apart again, unsolder the bybee's rebuild the speakers then test the cables and then do that whole process again to reinstall them not sure I can bring myself to do that (you know I would do anything for you Peter but there are limits  ) but anyway I use a demagnetiser frequently see below.

I do not have the Densen but I do have the IsoTek "Full System Enhancer" which demagnetises and burns in components so probably a similar thing (the demag track sounds like the sound track from a "B"  rated movie). I had been using this to burn in my new speaker drive units (running at night) for some weeks before installing the bybees so I think my system was properly demagnetised before I started all of this (not intentionally though it just happened that way).

Just a point though when I first used the demag track on my system I was sceptical but was surprised to hear it did improve things. But the difference it made is small compared with what the ByBees have done.

P

[juanpmar]

If the bybees don´t affect the cable´s resistance, inductance or/and capacitance, as Paul suggest, then must work in other unknown parameter of the cables. Magnetizing or better said demagnetizing the system could be something related with the bybees which I really don´t know.

Anyway, the differences between cables are audible although again we are talking about, usually, cables with different resistance, inductance, capacitance. Would be interesting to test silver and copper cables with the same inductance, capacitance and resistance. Would it be possible?.

Juan

[Scroobius]

Adrian / Juan - another thought on LCR in cables. My original speaker cable was the most "correct" construction I have come across. It was a proper litzendraht braid (whereas most other cables are "hyperlitz" which is a compromise) so inductance was tiny the lowest possible. Resistance was tiny due to the 48 conductors in parallel. Capacitance was low (but not the lowest). So in terms of LCR this was one of the best speaker cables on the market. But it was no where near as good as simple bare copper wire. So what is going on?

Well I really don't know but I just wonder if we should be thinking of speaker cable as a wave guide (then very different rules apply). After all it transfers signal / charge at somewhere near the speed of light. And maybe that is where the physicists started when contracted to reduce electrical background noise in submarines.

Just a thought - maybe we will never know but makes for a great dinner party discussion.

The Bybees work at a quantum level and that is really weird stuff. Neils Bohr said "Those who are not shocked when they first come across quantum theory cannot possibly have understood it" and "It is safe to say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. Richard Feynman" (my hero)

P

[juanpmar]

Just a thought - maybe we will never know but makes for a great dinner party discussion.

P

My spoken English is not fluent enough for such a high conversation but it could be an advantage that I could use to enjoy the dinner while I listen.

Juan

[PeterSt]

Paul, I sure do not expect you to re-change everything just for a little test. But once you are up to it anyway maybe ...

Juan, was that link regarding my post ? I don't think so.
Anyway, if one is a not-believer in "cables" it is me, but, they do matter because of filtering (easy to apply by sorts of materials). So, any "better" cable filters. NOT good.

Densen Demagic sure works, but you have to understand a little what might be happening;
Electricity flows because electrons "contaminate" eachother. So, they pass through the message so to speak. One atom gets energized ("magnetic"), so the next one does too. Now think of what may happen in a bended cable; shortcuts happen, while at the same time ways around occur. This meets in an asynchornous fashion, and we can look at it like all being mixed up a little. But what's really supposed to happen, is that the (e.g. !) shortcuts become shortcuts more easily because of a learning process. The electrons may "flow" more easy the same route as they did a longer time before.
This, btw, is how a knot in LS cables changes sound ...

Demagic undoes this by means of random frequencies and "all amplitutes". It shuffles.
And, it most certainly works. Not that I use it these days (because I always forget anyway), but I should. In the mean time it is my opinion that this sort of thing should not help at all, which is by now a main reason why I don't use it anymore; I rather have all "straight" in the first place. And a major reason is : I won't test NOS1's or XXHighEnd, with a tweak which is arbitrary, hence might not work out the same at your place.

(this was my own explanation, but I guess Densen Demagic tells similar, which I read for the last time maybe 20 years ago).

Anyway, it was my idea that the Bybees could imply similar, while it was not 100% clear to me whether Paul tried to tell that "the difference had gone" after using the Bybees. But I now understand that the difference has gone between the cables just because of applying the Bybees (and still do so).

Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

A side note :

It slowly becomes the most clear that something like the NOS1-USB suddenly allows for very definite judgements. They are so soo easy to make. And worse : you can even "see" what to do, when something is not completely right to your judgement. This wasn't before (not even with the original NOS1).

I got this from my own experience, and I get this from a couple of posts in here, as well as from emails from others.
I see this as new ... (absolute judgement now is easy).

Peter

[juanpmar]

Juan, was that link regarding my post ? I don't think so.

No, sorry, for you was just the question: Do you mean that demagnetizing the system eliminates the differences between cables?.

The link was just to think about the general issue and directed to all.

A side note :

It slowly becomes the most clear that something like the NOS1-USB suddenly allows for very definite judgements. They are so soo easy to make. And worse : you can even "see" what to do, when something is not completely right to your judgement. This wasn't before (not even with the original NOS1).

I got this from my own experience, and I get this from a couple of posts in here, as well as from emails from others.
I see this as new ... (absolute judgement now is easy).

Peter

I totally agree. The NOS1 USB is the most fantastic tool to know the "truth" of the system.

Juan

[Scroobius]

Hey Peter - I think you make a good point about the Densen treatment. To be sure from your explanation of what is going on it starts to sound similar to Bybee by working on and cleaning up the transportation mechanism of the signal riding on the "back of" slow moving electrons. But is there a difference between Densen (or Isotec) treating a magnetic effect and Bybee treating a quantum effect - well I don't know and maybe we never will but a good spot anyway - nice one.

Just remembered one thing in a write up somewhere it was mentioned that there is a quantum effect where signal noise is generated by electrons being caused to move in a random manner due to passing through the incontinuities in a circuit (like that of the crystal lattice in a conductor or components in a cross over etc etc) and that Bybee treats that - it does not sound like a magnetic effect. Also for sure the crystal lattice in silver wire is going to be significantly different to that in copper. Should be more "refined" in silver due to its cost compared with copper ha ha.

P