PC Tweak for NOS1 async USB

[praphan]

Hello everyone,

I found this card on CA forum : SOtM tX-USB Audiophile PCI to USB Audio Card. http://www.sonore.us/SOtM.html  Also this SATA filter : SOtM In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter

Does anyone try these gadgets with NOS1 USB? Appreciate your view.

Thanks and regards,
Praphan

[manisandher]

Mine are waiting for me at home as we speak. I'm hoping to be able to try them out this weekend.

But I have the feeling though that Peter feels they shouldn't make a difference with the NOS1...

Mani.

[PeterSt]

I think it may matter Mani. At least by now we know that XX settings still matter (you were the first to tell). So this should be related to this. Ok, could ...

Thank you Praphan.
Peter

[Bigear]

Hopefully their devices are better then their English... 

[PeterSt]

I think it may matter Mani.

I didn't pay all that much attention, because I know that stuff. But if the question was about the USB card ... No. I would even be careful with it. Not that I really know, but I would never use *that*. Well, not for the NOS1.

The SATA card is another subject. So, it was that I was referring to. This I sure would try, plus it is a (by now) prooven concept. Not so about the USB. There's so much noise on USB that anything could change sound (add noise and youd have more bass, to name something).


Maybe good to know :
Filtering of noise is not necessarily a good thing. If you only know that filters will shift frequencies. A. it now collects elsewhere, B. where it may even be more harmful (think amps).
Noise must be guided out. Not filtered out ...
(says me)

Peter

[christoffe]

SOtM tX-USB Audiophile PCI to USB Audio Card.

This card makes no sense in a PC because inside the NOS 1 the
"USB is powered by an internal dedicated linear power supply" . Signals (0s and 1s) are transfered between the PC and the NOS1 and vice versa (clocking) only.

Joachim

[praphan]

Mine are waiting for me at home as we speak. I'm hoping to be able to try them out this weekend.

But I have the feeling though that Peter feels they shouldn't make a difference with the NOS1...

Mani.

Hi Mani,

You seem to be one of the most up to date persons in this forum.

Hope that you ordered both boards. Would appreciate if you could apply and review each board one at a time so you can evaluate its
sonic impact separately.

Thanks in advance.
Praphan

[christoffe]

Hope that you ordered both boards.

Hi,

This is the main content of the manuf. description for the card:

-------
The SOtM tX-USB is an audiophile PCI to USB audio card like no other. This audio card has a unique design incorporating a power line noise filter. It then has individual ultra low noise regulators to power the usb devices attached, the on board ultra low jitter clock and the on broad PCI host controller.
-------

-power line noise filter -
There is no power transmission between the PC and the NOS1 USB via the USB cable! This additional card will have a negative impact to the SQ.
Less is more, thats the philosophy.

Joachim

[manisandher]

Hope that you ordered both boards.

Yep, both boards ordered from Jesus R at Sonore and now delivered and awaiting my attention at home.

I'll try one and then the other, and then both together and let you know what I think.

I anticipated that Peter might caution against using the USB board with the USB-NOS1, but wanted to try it myself anyway. If it indeed interfers in any way with the NOS1's already superb performance, I'll simply install the USB board into my work PC and use it with my hiFace feeding an old Musical Fidelity X24 DAC and my old low-end Stax headphones to listen to music while I work .

Mani.

[Nick]

I have had some experience applying similar principles to pci USB boards.

Upgrades to the usb clock.
Full isolation from the 5v and 3.3v pci bus power supply to the usb board.
Powering the boards chipset and clock with 3x quality linear shunt supplies.
Black gate decoupling caps.

With all of the above implemented on the USB board and the USB to SPDIF music interface that the board fed using it's own seperate internal 5v supply (eg not soured from the USB board, like the NOS setup), the board gave significant improments to sound.

I tried many USB chipsets, some better than others but one thing that was a problem for most pci usb boards was that they oftern share  interrupts with other devices (and we know this can be important) whereas motherboard USB tend to have dedicated interrupts to work from.

I tend to believe Peter that the NOS is relatively immune from USB interface type but past experience says there could certainly be something here.

Fingers crossed Mani for a good result 

[manisandher]

I had a chance to install the SOtM-SATA and SOtM-PCI-to-USB boards today. Here's what I think:

SOtM-SATA: This is difficult to evaluate really because I didn't have a chance to have a good listen before installing the board. But I think there is an improvement - things just sound a tad more 'fluid'.

SOtM-PCI-to-USB: Well, there's definitely a big difference between this and my mobo USB feeding the NOS1. The sound is more 'forward' and 'alive' - exciting I guess. It seems 'cleaner' somehow and more dynamic also. In my system, I prefer it! Switching back to the mobo USB, everything sounds really 'nice' and relaxed - the sort of sound you could sit and listen to for hours. But it doesn't sound as real or exciting to me.

I'm not sure what Peter's exact concerns about the SOtM-PCI-to-USB board might be. Of course it could be that it's actually adding some sort of 'distortion', which is compensating for an inadequacy elsewhere in my system. But overall, it definitely sounds better than the mobo USB... to my ears... in my system.

Oh, and this has nothing to do with the fact that you can switch the USB power off at the board. I'm using a USB cable that has a separate power leg which I unplug from the PC anyway. But I'm not sure the NOS1 really 'cares' whether the USB cable carries any power or not - I'm pretty certain the USB power leg is not connected.

So in all, that's $365 very well spent in my book (though I did have to pay an additional $100 in import duty & VAT).

Mani.

[Nick]

Mani hi,

That's very interesting, sounds like a good result. I think it's time for me to get my soldering iron out agin 

Would you mind saying what USB chipset the board is using ? IM me if you can say and would feel more comfortable.

Best,

Nick.

[praphan]

Hi Mani, 

Thanks for the review. Very interesting finding indeed. I have a feeling right at the beginning that the USB board might have more sonic impact than the SATA filter since it is right at the final output before feeding NOS1. Could you please clarify:

1. Did you try a dedicated power supply feeding this USB board , either linear PSU or battery?

2. Forward, but hopefully not aggressive. Can you please elaborate a bit more of its sonic character. Any fatigue with extended listening.

Thanks in advance.
Congratulation for your well spent investment anyway.
Praphan

[PeterSt]

I'm not sure what Peter's exact concerns about the SOtM-PCI-to-USB board might be.

Maybe this should not be over-emphasized. I mean, it is almost more "you" than me saying it (or starting about it).

Anyway, what would be happening is that noise, when there, (and it will be !) travels through the data itself. BUT, this is about the pure data, and not "music data". Remember the connection is asynchronous. Of course the data goes over a gnd connection as well, and *that* might neak in the noise afterall.
Now one other thing is important, and this is that you leave all the connections in-tact. This is power (+ and -), shield, and data of course. Thus :

I'm using a USB cable that has a separate power leg which I unplug from the PC anyway

It looks like you have compared with that situation. This would be "wrong".

Of course, you may still end up with a better situation than how it is meant to be (by me). But it really should be compared with (tried with) the most normal connection. This means : cut nothing.

I can say though (and hopefully this is helpful), that when the sound is getting very silky - up to lifeless (and more bassy), it will be noise problems. I'm note sure this is especially USB related, and all I can tell is that overhere this especially exchibited with USB, and nothing else (so far). But, I got that right by inherent DAC changes, and not outside ...

And I must add to *that* that when I was finished with it, I had to look at my amp section, and now that appeared to be noisy and "wrong".
In between all lines I already told it : you will go from one to the other, and in the end we need analysers to get it right. It's all really at a crazy detail level. Quite impossible to get right by means of listening. You said it :

Of course it could be that it's actually adding some sort of 'distortion'

But in the end it is all about this :

But overall, it definitely sounds better than the mobo USB... to my ears... in my system.

Peter

[manisandher]

Would you mind saying what USB chipset the board is using ? IM me if you can say and would feel more comfortable.

Hi Nick. This is going to require me to take the board out of the PC to get a good look at it. I'm happy to do this an PM you when I do, but it won't be for a while I'm afraid - travelling for work a lot in the next few weeks.

Mani.