Give me a reason NOT to do this

[christoffe01]

Mani.

Hi Mani,

what is your motivation / reason to replace your Bernings?

Is it the highend drug / virus?

Joachim

[manisandher]

Joachim, my Berning 300B is not used to drive my speakers - it's used purely as a headphone amp. I hardly ever use it and have decided to put it up for sale.

Your question should address my motivation/reason to replace my Sanders Magtech amp, which I've said I really, really like drving my Quads. Well, I am NOT getting rid of the Magtech - it's a phenomenal amp.

What I am looking to do is replace the Rotel Michi amp in my study (where I also have a NOS1 and the smaller Quad speakers). I could take 'the path well trodden' and buy another Magtech. Or I could take 'the path less worn', put my current Magtech in the office and buy an even 'better' amp for my main room.

So in a way, you could say that it's the highend drug/virus at work. Although maybe the 'highend' label is not accurate. If I can get bridged gainclones to work well, I'll happily go with them over a Soulution or DartZeel... hardly a 'highend' solution.

Mani.

[christoffe01]

hardly a 'highend' solution.

Mani.

Hi Mani,

from my experience over 30 years go straight to the top end in the second hand market. (the maximum amount of money you are willing to invest)
and buy it.
This saves you a lot of money, because the other solutions are always intermediate and you have to sell the "old" components with losses.

The decision is hard / difficult but the most economical.

Joachim

[manisandher]

Yes I tend to agree. That's why I have two NOS1s 

Of course, getting the best value for money is a big consideration (again why I have two NOS1s). But for me, like many other people here I'm sure, time is a big consideration also. It takes me an inordinate amount of time to think these sorts of things through. Luckily, it's been summer and I've had a lot more downtime than normal. But that all changes in a week or so, and I'm kind of keen to have at least made a decision on the way forward before then.

Mani.

[Suteetat]

Peter, while I appreciate your standpoint basically about having system that is utterly transparent to the source, in this case digital recording, I feel that deep down, this is a losing battle.
Unfortunately, majority of commercial recordings available, are not exactly made with absolutely flat and transparent audio system in mind. The sound was already tweaked, altered, manipulate with multi tracking recording, equalized to death and playback during editing through what I would considered to be inferior equipments and is aimed at mass market consumers with average audio playback system.
Only a small percentage of recordings are truely audiophile, meant to be played with true highend system.
Personally, I much prefer to listen to Kissin, Arrau, Brendel, Perahia etc recordings through mainstream recording company rather than John O'Cornor, Arthur Pizarro and the like through audiophile recording as their music making is so much better.
For me, I would rather have a stereo playback that would let me enjoy the music without the equipment getting in the way rather than trying to hear everything good and bad that sound engineer managed to add. I love Zimmerman's Chopin Ballades recording on DG very much  and would love to kill whoever that recorded the session for ruining the sound of the recording. However, since I only am aware of one version of Zimmerman's recording of this piece, I rather try to enjoy the music rather having all the bad sound screaming at me in full daylight. When I have access to all the great music that I love where listening to a totally transparent system does not make my easr bleed then I shall strive for those system. Till then...... 

[Flecko]

I can't emphasize enough that everone who is using a preamp or even single resistor to attenuate the volume CAN NOT know what he is talking about. He may think he knows, but all he does is implying measurement results which WILL look totally wrong. What's the bet ? 1000 ? 10000 ? I am ready for it.
Besides that you will loose the bet, you will be the most sad that you thought you were listening to a fine system, while actually you were listening to a bunch of filters, them masking all the other stuff being wrong. The test is so easy : take out your preamp and notice that the sound gets worse. In that case, it *is* worse, and something *is* wrong.

I can not let you away with this Why should on the one hand meassurments tell everything and than if you use a preamp, with meassurements that say that this preamp has such low distortion, noise and high bandwidth that you just cannot say there is something filtered out or added you will ever be able to hear, make things worse?  It is quite the contrary. It gives the signal comming from the dac voltage gain and lowers outputimpedance. Plus it is an easy to drive load for the dac. If you use a digital volume control you will always have a 20-40db higher noisefloor because you can never listen at full gain. And just because not any dac is designed to drive a power amp directly, there is something wrong with it. It depends on the design goals you have. There are more variables than producing a perfect square wave and to have a good impulse response. It is nice for sure but these kinds of signals never occur in real music. So, it at least can be doubted how important this realy is. It is not right to judge the whole concept of a dac or any system just by one or two parameters. And it will not work. You have to listen in the end.

[PeterSt]

Hi Adrian,

I just removed two posts of mine. Didn't fit in the atmosphere of Phasure.

All I'll say now is that I dont agree much with anything ...

Peter

[manisandher]

Hey Peter, you must be working (too) hard on something?

I read your posts before you deleted them, and tend towards your way of thinking. However, I think we've got be careful not to alienate anyone who doesn't.

I wonder if your comments would be more suitable in a thread/area dedicated to the optimisation of a whole system that uses a NOS1 specifically as its source? But then again, we don't want the forum to become one for just NOS1 users... although, quite frankly, I have no idea why anyone who can afford one hasn't yet bought one...

Mani.

[Flecko]

although, quite frankly, I have no idea why anyone who can afford one hasn't yet bought one...

At the momen I can't. But it wont be long until there is a steady and higher money flow to my bank account. Then the fun begins
My last investion was a CD Transport, a DAC and a  Preamp. It all was used...If I would have combined all the money I also could have bought the NOS1 but then I would had nothing to compare to. I just need the extra money for the NOS1. Then there would be several options how to use it in my system or build up a second one. There are only two things which could come in the way before buying the NOS. I have the itch for building new speakers and a new poweramp would be nice. But sooner or later the NOS WILL come.

Hi Adrian,

I just removed two posts of mine. Didn't fit in the atmosphere of Phasure.

All I'll say now is that I dont agree much with anything ...

Peter

Ok, nontheless it would have been interesting to discuss about it. So if you have the time sometime to share your meassurments and your thoughts, it would be nice.

[christoffe]

Hi Mani,

any news on the amplifier front.

Joachim

[Bigear]

Hi Mani,

I'm probably pretty late joining this topic but my 2 cts would be for a second setup to go for a boutique kind of amp, SET or OTL (I used to drive my quads with an Aitos 803 OTL) to create a whole different musical experience.

If you would like to stay at solid state, another brand you might consider is KARAN. Soulution and Dartzeel may make the 'best' high-end amps according to many magazines, but for sure they have a the 'best' marketing, which also makes them extremely expensive.


- Quint

[praphan]

I'm probably pretty late joining this topic but my 2 cts would be for a second setup to go for a boutique kind of amp, SET or OTL (I used to drive my quads with an Aitos 803 OTL) to create a whole different musical experience.


- Quint

Hi Bigear,

I feel you have a good system to run your NOS1. But your signature is so short. May be you may like to expand.

Praphan

[manisandher]

... any news on the amplifier front.

Hi Joachim. Ahem...

Well, I didn't buy the Soulution. Actually, I was going to and it was all arranged, but then the seller pulled out a couple of days before the amp was due to be delivered. Apparantly, someone (the UK distributor, I think) phoned the seller and told him that £14K was too cheap for an amp which now costs ~£30K in the UK (due to the Swiss exchange rate). If it were the UK distributor who made the call, then this would just reaffirm what I think about the whole hifi industry... But really, I should be thanking whomever made that phone call - £14K is just a crazy amount of money to be spending on an amp (let alone £30K!).

I'm currently in talks with Bert (from BD Design) to see if he could make something up for me, based on his gainclone boards. I'm really eager to pursue this route. The only issue we're facing is finding nice enclosures for the amps - it seems these are not so easy to source when considering very low volumes (i.e. just 2 units).

But I'll let you know what transpires...

Cheers, Mani.

[manisandher]

... my 2 cts would be for a second setup to go for a boutique kind of amp, SET or OTL (I used to drive my quads with an Aitos 803 OTL) to create a whole different musical experience.

Hi Quint. Wow, these look gorgeous. Very interesting philosophy too.

If you would like to stay at solid state, another brand you might consider is KARAN.

I've really set my mind on Bert's amps for now - I've just got to hear what a powerful gainclone sounds like with a pair of Quads (I wonder if it's ever really been tried before??).

But thanks for both suggestions - really. This is what I love about the Phasure forum - like-minded people trying to help each other.

Thanks again.

Cheers, Mani.

[Bigear]

I feel you have a good system to run your NOS1. But your signature is so short. May be you may like to expand.

Praphan

Hi Praphan,

I added some to my signature...

Cheers