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PeterSt
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« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2011, 11:47:06 am » |
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Well, Iron Man has been THE track for me I always wanted to listen to as long as I didn't have Paranoid on CD. But two years back or so I obtained it, and maybe I played it two times since then.  Not *all* nostalgy works. I could say the same about Black Night from Deep Purple (could have been a #1 hit back then). I played that a lot when I was young. But today I don't feel the urge at all (and didn't play it in 35 years ?). But then of course it really was "nothing" ... Peter |
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PeterSt
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« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2011, 08:39:18 pm » |
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I thought I could just as well post the track times of my version :
My version of Waltz for Debby (1987 Taratino Remaster) has slightly different times (as listed on the disk) and the cover is the same except for a 2cm x 3cm area on the lower right hand corner that says: ORIGINAL Jazz CLASSICS COMPACT DISC ... which is on my version of the Bill Evans - Sunday at the Village Vanguard ... Level goes right up to the digital maximum (99.99% sure telling that it will be compressed). Just listened to 1.5 track again - those hissing cymbals make no sense ... |
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manisandher
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« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2011, 12:48:33 am » |
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The 3 first Sabbath albums have surprisingly good sound. At the time the Black Sabbath guys didnt have a clue about recording technique. They just showed up in the studio and did what they were told. They recorded in a small local studio run by 2 professional engineers who used to work with acoustic instruments. Geezer Butlers bass was way too load, so they unplugged him from his loudspeaker and plugged the bassguitar directly into the (4ch?) mixing console. The first album was recorded on the fly with surprisingly good sound quality. Not sure if those of you outside the UK can access this, but there's an interesting documentary on the making of 'Paranoid' here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00vlq0y/Classic_Albums_Black_Sabbath_Paranoid/It probably won't remain accessible for more than a few weeks. Mani. |
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crisnee
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« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2011, 05:05:37 am » |
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One of the best sounding jazz trios cds I've heard is "Changes," by Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock and Jack Dejohnette. One of the minor problems with the Bill Evans at the Village Vanguard stuff is the balance of instruments, mainly the piano isn't prominent enough or the bass is too prominent, and there are just too damn many bass solos--the bass just isn't that interesting that it should be constantly featured--and I love the bass.
On the Jarrett album the bass sounds great and rarely plays by itself, but rather interplays with the other instruments. The percussion sounds fantastic, you can identify all the different cymbals (by place and sound), and the piano level is up there with the others and sounds as large.
It's an ECM recording, 1984 but actually recorded Jan 1983, Power Station, NYC. Engineer Jan Erik Kongshaug. Doesn't give anymore recording info. It's a short album, about 38 minutes.
-Chris
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crisnee
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« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2011, 05:27:18 am » |
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So ... I listened to 3 of those Mapleshade's ...
The strange thing is : all the voices have a kind of similar distortion. Quite unbearable.
Btw, no misunderstandings : something like the Bill Evan's '61 is not about "purity" to the sense we're talking about it here. Like I said earlier (I think), you can easily hear the lack of resolution of it. But that doesn't mean something is really wrong with it. The contrary.
Peter
So, what do you think the distortion is? I didn't really recognize it as distortion, but I do find it unlistenable. I'm always immediately irritated when I listen to their recordings. I've never once listened to a whole track through, nevermind the whole cd. And yet their recording process is super pure and simple. And some folks rave about their recordings. By the way, shortly after I bought the cds (10 years ago?) I returned most of them, and wrote Mapleshade a letter telling them what I thought of their cds; it wasn't pretty. I never heard back from them and they continue to this day to send me their catalogue. And yes agreed about the Bill Evans stuff; however they thought too highly of the bass, and why arrange the cd with 2 takes of the same number consecutively--didn't they read the rule book? The bonus belongs at the end! -Chris |
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PeterSt
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« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2011, 10:19:55 am » |
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Not sure if those of you outside the UK can access this, but there's an interesting documentary on the making of 'Paranoid' here: It looks like this ended lat night at 00:00 (just a few minutes after you posted, and knowing you are one hour behind us) ? damn. Or I don't understand what to do ... |
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PeterSt
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« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2011, 10:31:54 am » |
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If you want to listen to a recording which I consider to have it all (for the good SQ), listen to
Benny Green - Testifyin'! : Live at the Village Vanguard (1992, Blue Note)
(not any remaster of course, and as far as I can see mine looks original)
Music is similar to the Bill Evans' we're talking about here.
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PeterSt
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« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2011, 10:42:30 am » |
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So, what do you think the distortion is? I didn't really recognize it as distortion, but I do find it unlistenable. I'm always immediately irritated when I listen to their recordings. I've never once listened to a whole track through, nevermind the whole cd. And yet their recording process is super pure and simple. And some folks rave about their recordings. Hard to tell, but those Mapleshades seem to be all similar regarding to this. Last night I listened to Al Lee again, but this time with a longer i2s cable (this should higher jitter). It seems more listenable this way, and it also gives the opportunity to analyse better what is going on. Well, I still don't know. His voice seems to be a male's on/off voice where something can't catch up with the fast on/off. Something like interference in/on the microphone in the lower frequencies. So, something like : a microphone which is able to catch the higher frequencies which would be about fast up/down of the membrane at lower levels (which the higher frequencies are), but which won't work for the lower frequencies (where the whole membrane has to be pulled back to zero and back again). Maybe it is even related to that good base drum I noticed, where again the membrane would go up and down, but now in naturall fashion (because it is not on/off but going from plus to minus and back). While this is already making things up and speculating, I really can't say more. Btw, listened to Mark Knopfler's Golden Heart right after this - thinking about a somewhat similar voice, but no sense of this "distortion" to be heard here. Peter |
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*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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Flecko
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« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2011, 11:49:50 am » |
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Here is a very nice version of paranoid from you tube. Sound quality is not good but what Randy Rhoads does is "some kind of magic". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taIsi994YhgDoes somebody knows a good version of paranoid with Randy Rhoads, that also has good sound quality? |
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manisandher
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« Reply #69 on: August 10, 2011, 03:43:11 pm » |
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Back to Bill Evans Trio and WfD...
Just received my copy of the CD - original 1987 remastering by Joe Tarantino (althought the CD cover itself does say ©1987 and ©1992). Listening on my work PC (with HQPlayer & Juli@ card feeding pair of Stax headphones) this version really sounds like it's from the same master as the 24/192 version I have from HDTracks. The stereo left/right pan sounds identical, as too does the audience noise in the background. BUT, the CD version sounds a LOT brighter... more digital!
Attached are the two respective Audacity spectrograms.
Mani.
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manisandher
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« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2011, 04:42:32 pm » |
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I thought I could just as well post the track times of my version :
My version of Waltz for Debby (1987 Taratino Remaster) has slightly different times (as listed on the disk) and the cover is the same except for a 2cm x 3cm area on the lower right hand corner that says: ORIGINAL Jazz CLASSICS COMPACT DISC ... which is on my version of the Bill Evans - Sunday at the Village Vanguard ... Level goes right up to the digital maximum (99.99% sure telling that it will be compressed). Looks like I have the same version as Chris. From the attachment you'll see that there's no compression. Peter, I think we have the original version and you have a (very-well) remastered version... Mani. |
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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crisnee
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« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2011, 05:45:58 pm » |
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Mani, Peter, I just posted to CA on this very thing. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Scandal-Brewing-High-Resolution-Downloads?page=7#comment-93881 and then some. We have parallel universes going on. -Chris |
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Win7 Vanilla 64bit 4gb Dual Core E5200, 2.5ghz, offline audio only pc > 0.9z-6, Eng #4, Adaptive, MixedCon SFS 300, 10 ms, Buffer 2048, Scheme 3, Q1 1, 0s, > Audio-GD DI > Scott Nixon TD2 NOS Dac/MS V-Dac.
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manisandher
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« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2011, 06:37:51 pm » |
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Hi Chris. Yes, I'll post my thoughts there. ... the CD version sounds a LOT brighter... more digital! Having listened to both for a while now, I'm not sure I would continue to say that the CD version sounds 'more digital'. Rather, I'd say it actually sounds a lot cleaner... and way more life-like. I'm kind of coming around to Peter's thoughts that maybe the tapes had deteriorated quite a bit between the original 1987 digital remastering and the latest 24/192 one. Also, it occurs to me that the Sony PCM1610 used for early CD remasters couldn't have been that bad... Mani. |
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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Flecko
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« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2011, 04:50:30 pm » |
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Having listened to both for a while now, I'm not sure I would continue to say that the CD version sounds 'more digital'. Rather, I'd say it actually sounds a lot cleaner... and way more life-like. It could be that the CD version is louder, because it uses the full dynamic range of the cd format, producing maximum gain at your output stage. the high resolution version just uses the lower 16 bit as dynamic range. So you do not have maximum gain with the high res format. Hence noise should increase if you turn to the same volume level and it should sound not as dynamic. That could cause the better sound of the cd. |
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Software: Windows7 Ultimatex64SP1 | XXHighend 9z9b
Hardware: | Gigabyte X79-UD3 | i7-3820 | 16 GB DDR3 | OS on 128 GB Samsung SSD 830 | Music on 2TB WD Caviar Green | Seasonic X-660
XXHE Settings: | Engine 4 | Adaptive | Buffer=1024 | Q12345=[14,0,0,0,0] | xQ1=1 | Q5=3 | Scheme=3 | Mixed Contiguous with SFS=12 | 176.4kHz32bit | ArcPred + Peakextend | Clock=1ms |
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PeterSt
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« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2011, 07:44:09 pm » |
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No ... it doesn't work like that.  It would be true that a 24 bit can have more headroom to be as dynamic (or way more), but there's nothing like that it would be using the lower 16 bits only. Actually the CD version (the one I have here !) is less loud than the hires version (also see my earlier XX-Analisys figures). Regards, Peter |
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
Global Moderator
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