Peter's best Classic Rock recordings/cds/remasters

[PeterSt]

Ok, not embarrassed then, but offended. Nah, shocked. Anyway, I can't help it ...

And why in heaven's name do you listen to that long Steve Miller track,   I forget the name, six times a year. I listened to it once after you wrote that and will find it rather difficult to listen to it again. Should I? Did I miss something?

Oh, that's merely just a technical reason. It has a fairly stiff bass, and rather expressed highs on cymbals. Both vary in level along the track, and it gives me a kind of opportunity to judge these matters without the track ending at 4 minutes already. So, this is just on the development department. For the same reason I keep on playing the Zeps regularly, or A Whole Lotta Love once per one-two years. I mean, there's too much other stuff to listen to, but falling back to the same albums or tracks for testing has to happen just the same. Get Yer Ya Ya's Out is another example, and THE example of how much an album can improve, while actually it's a total flat nothing. At first.
But just from the Jimi Hendrix era and some Joe Cocker I'm not able to find anymore, is Led it Bleed. There I was 13 I guess, and only last week I played that heavenly album for about a first time since then. One of the best sounding albums ever, and I bet you won't believe that ... (just the original version)

Back to Love, maybe there's a scandal under the hood similar to Meat Loaf. That is, back at the time it took quite some effort to proove that it really was that other lady singing (Ellen Fowly - had a few albums of her too). Or what about the so many songs Jimmy Page hacked eh ? (I posted about that the other day). So, we really may like those impressive tunes, but half of it is not Led Zeppelin at all, but 50's songs from mostly unknown artists. Not that I care much.
Maybe you do ? haha

[Calibrator]

But hey, the Moody Blues are not The Shadows ...

hey there young whipper snapper .. don't go a mockin' the Shadows

They produced a number of fine instrumentals tracks in their day. As long as Cliff didn't get into the act they were very easy listening.

The Moody Blues though... that's another level entirely. Aaaah .. Nights in White Satin .. brings back memories

Cheers,

Russ

 

[PeterSt]

The Shadows have a copy act too : Status Quo.
Once upon a time I had over 40 albums of them (all on DAT tape). Until I saw them live. The worst performers.

The best performers ? Uriah Heep.
Ok, that was 8 years or so back.

[Calibrator]

Strangely enough, I didn't follow Status Quo back in the early 70's when they were at their most popular over in England. I dont think their fan base was all that great over here. A year or so back I saw a TV documentary about them and recognised some of their songs, so went out and bought a few of their more popular albums. Haven't listened to them for a while now though .. too much jazz still to enjoy

Cheers,

Russ

[crisnee]

Peter said "But just from the Jimi Hendrix era and some Joe Cocker I'm not able to find anymore, is Led it Bleed. There I was 13 I guess, and only last week I played that heavenly album for about a first time since then."

I do believe that, not for any technical "great sounding," reason, but because it was one of my favorite albums ever and the song "Gimme Shelter," ranks way way up there. For that reason alone, it must have been a very good sounding album.

Tell me more about "Get Your Ya Ya's Out," if you don't mind. It's another album I think very very highly of. You use it for discerning what?

Peter said "Something about "do you care." I can't see it from here and I don't want to edit to find the real quote.

And do I care? not a wit, haha. Partly because I know nothing of the scandals to which you refer. But I do know I heard nothing similar to Love in my musically aware and discerning youth, haha again, (although there is a general MORness to the songs which some might confuse with similarity too...

-Christo, La Aficionado

[PeterSt]

Let's start with the Moody Blues once again;
Listening to Love (which I really didn't know before) you can feel all over this is not The Moody Blues. The Moody Blues are not pressing some era or whatever. Love does. Pink Floyd does. Even Canned Heat does, to name something from the same era. There are more. But to be honest, and when this is about the type of music we talk about, not even The Beatles do. Stones yes again.
And so it is only disappointing (at least for me) to find that Love just build up their songs, have the same voices, the same kind of rythms, the same kind of overall sound - as The Moody Blues.
All would be similar to liking ABBA. I guess it is about the difference between commercial music and something one stands for ?
Too hard to explain maby.

Having said this, your remark about Gimme Shelter is exactly NOT why I like the SQ of it. This is what one would think generally, but I guess you don't know me then. Just try to think I am trying to create the best SQ i the world, and *then* I would say something like that in stupid fashion only because of some memories ? no. But what I *am* after, is letting these memories sound the best. Like it happened to The beatles (I hope you won't get confused all over), which really sound almost as good as today's good recordings. Almost. But at least a 100 times better as I ever could imagine (a few years back).

Get Yer Ya Ya's out for me is THE example of a most poor flat sounding album, which can sound crazily good afterall. All it really needs is a better playback chain, but which mainly comes down the the DAC. Or I better say it te other way around : without that DAC you will never get there. On LP maybe (I think I said something similar before).
Don't ask me how that emerges, but somehow there must be hidden highs or dynamics or whatever which won't improve by just buying a more expensive DAC. Also, I think it must be related to the impulse response somehow, because at least *that* is the main difference for the NOS1. Can't explain it further, and I can only pass on the message that so, so, sooo many good old recordings exist ... we just didn't know. And the very last one telling/thinking this because of some emotions would be me. Trust me.

That you really can't imagine this is something else, and rather normal of course.
I know you came around in here later than the large topic about the NOS1 development, but if you had followed that you would know what I have experienced throughout that project. About 10 seconds lasting cymbals while normally you hear them 2 seconds or less. And about that not being good because things were over expressed. Wrong. Still the "information" is in there because it could be squeezed out. In the end the NOS1 didn't end up with 10 seconds lasting cymbals, but the 2 was extended to 4 so to speak. So, a lot better, but far away from what can be.
Back then I was talking for a year or so about things I am doing right now. I was talking about being the only one having this sound, just because no such DAC existed (and still doesn't btw). Two months back I couldn't say this anymore, because I wasn't alone anymore, and the only difference was people's amplifiers (for those owning the NOS1 I mean). But lately and just still today ? - it is the same again. I am listening to something nobody has or can. But it won't last long, because the first NOS1-USB ships this week.
Now ? now I am not sure whether cymbals last 10 seconds or maybe only 7, because it is not about that anymore. They are not profound. All fits. And this is how Get Yer Ya Ya's Out turned from a flat dull sounding album into a most fresh and spatious sounding album, where even Charly Watts seems to be a happy smiling man (something must be wrong now hehe). I talked about this longer ago.

Still it is not a good recording, while Let it Bleed is.
And I always use the poor sounding albums to improve.

In the end you *must* be able to feel what I am talking about, because you use an NOS DAC yourself. Why ?
Well, I can tell you, sure not because of its most poor measurements. This is not about your specific DAC, but about all NOS DACs, like today's Audio Notes (but name them, it really doesn't matter). So, like that poor distorting DAC ? Well, now think about such an NOS DAC but now with good measurement figures. What would that change ?? That is the NOS1, or back to the subject, that is what I am listening to, and that is what squeezes out the better from perceivedly poor recordings. Somehow, because I really couldn't predict *that*.
That another interface again can influence this to such a large degree *is* something I could expect, just because I know what the DAC chips do and the only uncertaintly factor is the interface. Next I knew about those cymbals which told me the information is in there. But how to bring it forward without beging aggressive and disturbing after 30 minutes of listening to it.
And *still* I am not ready, because cymbals still are the loudest instruments on stage. Not so through loudspeakers. Yet.

Obsessive Pete

[PeterSt]

Last night I have been playing Humble Pie (The Immediate years (Natural born Bugie)) and Fleetwood Mac (forgot the name of the album, but the one from 69 with Oh Well on it).

Try this.

It is from the same "hollow sounding" period (end 60's) we talked about before.

You can hear the quality is totally different from today. Like maybe no close mics where ever used.
To me it seems that the resolution may be lacking or something; hard to tell (yet).
But there is really no way I can point out what is wrong with it. The contrary ...

I am playing more of this stuff lately, just because it attracks. But yesterday, after 3 hours of listening to this era music (played a Blue Note Jazz one as well), and after which anybody should be totally dizzy of bad sound, I started to wonder.
I started to wonder why my wife didn't have a single complaint in weeks about my music choise or level.
And so it was time to ask a question :

"Hey, what do you think all this old stuff music differs from today's ?"

The answer was a bit surprising, but still in my own direction :

"This all has more depth. It's less fucked up. Less stressed."

Try it. Try Humble Pie, Fleetwood Mac and Love for that matter. Try to imagine that those sure more readily available highs sound LESS stressed which is extactly how I would describe it. But careful, the "less stressed" is my interpretation of my wife's "less fucked up" which may not be english for this. But the fucked up is meant to be overblown, pumped up, and in the end of course about less compression - a subject I don't think my wife has a clue about (at least we never talk about this).

The importance seems to be that my own idea of "less stressed" which would litteraly be so (and not the fucked up thing), comes down to the same. You can listen to it for hours and hours, with -mind you- a level of highs you really won't run into with modern recordings. It is really creapy because that Blue Note album again showed that sheer "SPL" (I mean sound pressure) on even brushed cymbals.
I must also add that it seems that day by day it is getting "worse" because for me too things are still burning in. If you'd hear that Blue Note album here (I forgot, but it's names something like "Classical Jazz"), you'd say OMG what is happening here ??
I seem to say this to myself each evening when I turn on the music for the first time.

This is not blabbering about any NOS1 or something, but it *is* about the seemingly sheer impossibility that the ever so bad sounding old recordings are so good. But it is also about the for me intrigueing "how to bring across that message".
Chris, take Oh Well. I recall that as the back side of a vinyl single, but here I'm talking about the 9 minute version. Try to imagine that I am telling you that the Spanish Guitar played on there sounds better than your live Spanish Guitar ...
Of course this can't be, but so good it actually is.

It seems totally impossible that so much "data" is in there we never heard. Of which I was sure it were only nice memories why I played it once in a while. I feel "I" am going to change more than just producing better sound. Watch "me" ...

Peter

[crisnee]

Peter said "Having said this, your remark about Gimme Shelter is exactly NOT why I like the SQ of it."

Peter, I think you misunderstood me. I was being facetious. I was saying because I liked the album it must have sounded good. I have no idea if it did sound good or not as I wasn't into the technical aspects of sound back then at all. And I wasn't saying/implying anything about why or if you liked it.

But I did listen to it (an older cd version) after your email, and I found that my favorite song sounded the least good. I found many Stones cds to have particularly bad sound although not "Let it Bleed," which sounds quite good, I think it was the later ones in particular, when they changed labels?  A lot of unintended (I hope) distortion--sounded like inner groove distortion all over the lp. It's all a little (lot) hazy in my memory.  I noticed this without particularly thinking about sound at that time (as I mentioned earlier).

Re my disclaimer about being aware/unaware of sound back then. There were a few things I was much too aware of. Inner groove distortion, Wow (of wow and flutter) which I couldn't stand the slightest bit of--I'm real sensitive to out of tune, and rumble.

-Chris

[crisnee]

Peter said "Get Yer Ya Ya's out for me is THE example of a most poor flat sounding album, which can sound crazily good afterall. All it really needs is a better playback chain, but which mainly comes down the the DAC."

Then how do you explain that one of the best times I ever had listening to it was in a Subaru (car--do you Subaru in Dutchland?) cranked to the max.  The roo was rockin.  "Sympathy for the Devil," in particular. Maybe it's not a question of the DAC at all, but of volume.

-Chris

P.S. I'd crank it right now to test the theory, but it's 1:05 am, and I live in an apt building. Maybe you should test it, it's morning right? How does your wife like a crankin Mick and Keith at 6 a.m. ish?     or you for that matter?   

[crisnee]

"Hey, what do you think all this old stuff music differs from today's ?"

The answer was a bit surprising, but still in my own direction :

"This all has more depth. It's less fucked up. Less stressed."

What kind of music is she calling more fucked up, more stressed. In other words what had you normally been listening to? What's the comparison?

I'd been listening to Miles Davis from that period and before, a mixture from a boxed set. It too had what you're calling that "hollow," sound, although it doesn't really sound hollow (that wouldn't be good at all) but I sort of get what you're referring to. Anyway, I was impressed with the sound of many of the tracks on the cd (not all, although none were bad) . I've listened to it several times. It is definitely not at all as let's call it "pristine," as say Tord Gustavsen, or Patricia Barber. But it seems its all there, simple and just the music, buster. I don't know how exactly to put it. Quite different from today, but not necessarily worse.

A way I might put it, this happened with Love, who still has no (I repeat No No No) relation to the Moody Blues in any fashion other than they both were influenced by the MOR sound. Let me start again. On first listen, or rather on a not paying attention listen, one might not go back to the music easily because the sound, "well it doesn't seem very good, and I'd rather listen to great 'sounding,' recordings if I have my druthers since I have too much stuff to listen to anyway."

But if you happen to go back to it and listen more carefully, or you pay attention the first time, you realize that the recording is not a problem after all, as it matter of fact it's quite good, the music is all there. It's just not shiny and sparkly like a new diamond ruby bracelet, or Alfa Romeo--don't ask.

I found "Oh Well," on a Peter Green album, I don't know if it's the same version that you're referring to. I'll give it a listen tomorrow.

-Chris

P.S. Again. I wish I could afford your DAC but... Oh well, probably the rest of my system isn't good enough anyway. Don't want to put a diamond ruby bracelet on a hobo or a girl hobo (hoboette). But I'll tell you resetting up my system, carefully this time, has made a huge difference and sometimes I can't imagine it sounding much better.

By the way, somewhere you said you're English is bad. It is not bad at all, in fact it is very good. Many native English speakers don't write as well as you do. It's just when it gets to technical stuff, because the subject matter is already difficult, it becomes a morass and nightmare at times to figure out what's going on. What's Goin' On?

[PeterSt]

Then how do you explain that one of the best times I ever had listening to it was in a Subaru (car--do you Subaru in Dutchland?)

Btw ... to take out a more often confusion ... dutchland as such does not exist, but I guess the Amish already made the mistake. Or at least what came from it looking at the "dutch" area there (including the dutch flag). So, a few facts :

- In The Netherlands (which is where I am) we speak Dutch.
- One of our neighbours is Germany. There they speak German.
- When "Germany" is pronounced in their own language, it's called Deutschland. Translated into their own language they speak Deutsch.
- The Amish originally are from Germany, but IIRC merely from contries like Swiss (Zwitserland). This group of people is merely oriented about their language which is "High Deutsch" or a form of better pronounced German, habits and attitudes coming along with it.
- When they left for the US, they had to leave from Holland (which is the same as The Netherlands) and possibly had to group up first for a longer period. Why ? because Holland is at the see across the ocean with the US at the other side, and Germany et al is not. And so, in the end the word was spread that these people where from Holland, which they really 100% are not (not even a single one).
- And now areas of the US (main will be west of Philladelphia I think) are called "dutch", with people speaking german, riding in coaches with horses upfront, them originating from Germany/Swiss).
- That The Netherlands played a few roles in the exploration of the US is another matter and actually less known in the US itself. This is not only about The Hudson River area ("owned" by dutch some 400 years back), but also about earlier "discoveries" and the first States emerging.

Did someone say that a few things are confusing ??

Another order of confusement is how the "USA" emerged. As far as I can tell this is all about the more "warrying" countries, like the UK (and others). Although part of the stories, Spain is not amoungst those. However, according to our history books it was Spain who did most of the exploration, Columbus being a first (??) in 1492. But all the Spanish always did was harboring somewhere, greet the Indians, draw it on a map, and leave again. This is not about the literal forming of the States, but of course it is about Europe knowing that America existed in the first place.
That for us it always is confusing that Indians are not form Indy, Indonesians are not from India (which is how we call Indy) either and "Indy" food as how we call it really is from Indonesia is another matter, and who introduced Indy racing, changed that into CART (which really is a small race buggy in which all race historics learn to race), merged it back with Indy to next leave the Indy leage again - it is beyond me. But much of it is about confusing names which look alike.

Which brings me to the Subaru, of which we own one. No good stereo in there though, so no experience with that regarding your remarks. I do seem to have figured out though that a car stereo won't contain a sufficient amount of highs, which allows many music to sound better. A great lack of detail, but it could be perceived as better.
Germany is known to be THE country where most of the highways don't carry a speed limit. It is therefore not uncommon to drive in an unlimited row of cars all driving well over 220Km/h (some 140M/h). I can tell you though that when I drive the Subaru up to its limit (which is around 260/160) no good stereo would be any good anyway. haha. Besides that, I really think that no music is any good at driving at these speeds, because it really needs some attention to "take the highway corners", or look ahead for someone who drives at normal speed when things really can get dangerous, never knowing when that car might prepare to take over another - that one even driving slower. Sorry for that too long sentence. Here, this is not the US where people tend to be polite and stay in there line as long as it takes to grant the other the road. The contrary, here we think "if I don't change line NOW, I might have to break myself".

Peter


PS: By now I know that Pink Floyd's The Wall (normal studio version) sounds way better in MFSL Gold Disc.

[manisandher]

Hey Chris, your English isn't too bad either, but you need to brush up on a couple of areas ;-)

By the way, somewhere you said you're English is bad. It is not bad at all, in fact it is very good. Many native English speakers don't write as well as you do. It's just when it gets to technical stuff, because the subject matter is already difficult, it becomes a morass and nightmare at times to figure out what's going on. What's Goin' On?

Mani

[PeterSt]

Hey Nick, are you there ? before people think a Subaru is anything of a car ...

Do you have a stereo in your supercar ?
()

[Nick]

Hey Nick, are you there ? before people think a Subaru is anything of a car ...

Do you have a stereo in your supercar ?
()

Peter hi,

Your Subaru is defiantly something of a car, I have seen what they can do on tracks and I'm a big fan!

Unless the engine is not running in my car a stereo wouldn't be much use ,on long runs I use ear plugs . The Chevy V8 sound track rivals listening to a NOS1 though when i'm in the right mood  

The sound system haha 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[crisnee]

Hey Chris, your English isn't too bad either, but you need to brush up on a couple of areas ;-)

By the way, somewhere you said you're English is bad. It is not bad at all, in fact it is very good. Many native English speakers don't write as well as you do. It's just when it gets to technical stuff, because the subject matter is already difficult, it becomes a morass and nightmare at times to figure out what's going on. What's Goin' On?

Mani

So Mani, are you saying I used the wrong form of yer and 2?  Everybody's a critic.

Awl i no sho'nuff ain't nothin. Eye yam sew a shamed.

-Herr Christian

P.S. That's a hint Peter for my upcoming post. Apologies for too much Facetiousness and goofiness will play a prominent part in it.