Peter's best Classic Rock recordings/cds/remasters

[crisnee]

Hi Peter,

If you're interested in sharing your wisdom and have the time at some point, would you list (and comment if you're so inclined) what you consider the best recordings/remasters of some of the great classic rock cds. I know you love and listen closely to much of that music, as do I, and I would really value your recommendations.

If you just have time for one or two for now, how about one of my very favorites, the first Led Zep album (and second and third). The Stone's live "Get Your Ya Yas Out," would be another.

Thanks if your so inclined or not.

-Chris

Okay, I realize the title is a bit presumptuous, so if you must change it, please feel free to do so. 

[Suteetat]

Hmm.... not really classic Rock but lately I have been listening to a lot of Allan Taylor, I supposed more folk rather than Rock.
Thanks to Stockfish record who rerecords him with lot of his music from 1970's over the past few years. The sound quality
is excellent and is much better than his original recordings from the 70's. There is at least one SACD and 5-6 CD albums and
a collection on single LP.

[PeterSt]

Hi Chris,

Once we are in this very little circle of 2 or 3 albums - thinking about "classics", maybe together we can extend them to 30 or so, and maybe with the help of others we may reach 80, but I guess it will be tough. Why ? because today many sound too poor to be interesting.

Uriah Heep - Live
Great album at the time with especially July Morning as a track which did something to me - still does. But quality is too poor on CD. Unplayable.
Someone should make a vinyl rip of this, because I don't recall it sounding so bad.

Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffity
Great tracks of too poor quality for today. Worked well on cassette tape though.

War - War Live
Typically less known, but really from that age. Cisco Kid is the track for me. No bad quality at all.

Pink Floyd - Wish you were here.
I have problems with letting this sound allright. But this is with all Pink Floyd the case.

Pink Floyd - Echoes.
I think this was afer Umma Gumma and the jump from really psychedelic to more commercial. Fun is (I know now) that Echoes is based on maybe 5 year earlier material which as far as I know wasn't released on normal albums (but I have it anyway), with the track names which are all different. This material is on Atomn Heartmother as well. Btw the latter is just one or two years "before my time".

Wings - Wild Life
This is the first album of Paul mcCartney and Wings, I have been the only one for 20 years owning this vinyl album without seeing it somewhere else. It lasted until maybe 10 years back when a box set of CDs came about which contained it as a CD.
Strange album, but to me it does something.

Wings - RAM
If you're from back then (around the end of Flower Power), this contains classics only. But, also good quality sound.

Deep Purple - Who do we think we are
Just a melodious album. But notice how strange Deep Purple is when you start from their first album.

Deep Purple - Fireball

Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
Mainly for this one 14 minute track of which I not only forgot the name today, but which I never can select because one goes into the other in a "confusing" way. But it should be around : Behind the Wall of Sleep.
This was my very first album on vinyl, and it is the very best quality I have today on CD. IIRC the vinyl was from Vertigo.

Black Sabbath - Paranoid
I should say nothing here.

Black Sabbath - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Notice the great lyrics this band actually carries. They aren't that bad.
Quality is mediocre.

Deep Purple - In Rock
Child in Time ...

Deep Purple - Made in Japan
Should be my best classic. But it won't sound better than it does. Needs a turn table or something.

Steve Miller Band - The Joker.
I NEVER played this on CD (attempts told me poor quality), but it should be on this list I think.
Btw, I have an 18 minute "long version" of Macho City somewhere, and I play this one 6 times per year at least.

Dire Straits - Dire Straits
Not even a well known album for those who dicovered Dire Straits 10 years later, and from a somewhat later age (like above Steve Miller), but genuine Dire Straits.

Supertramp - Supertramp
Not really a classic maybe, but I owned it 4 years before a first single made Supertramp known in 1974, that single IIRC being drawn from that first album. I never understood why this band remained in the dark for such a long time.
Otherwise Crime of the Century should be a classic, but you must first own the album since 1974 before you can recognize it (with tracks like Rudy).

Grand Funk Railroad - ?
I don't know my album from back then anymore, but stuff like Go Home was on it.

Led Zeppelin I, II, III
Already implied by Chris, these would be the first to mention. No poor quality on these, and each of the tracks could be called classics. Here, for me it is always about putting on the album, knowing that at some stage the track will play you want to here (Gallows Pole would be one), while in the mean time you enjoy the other tracks so much. Somehow it never bores. Let me in this realm add that tracks like Kashmir (and many others) are as intrigueing, weren't it that the quality is too poor to listen to (that being on Physical Graffity or Houses of The Holy).


Ok, this is what I come up with in an hour's of time. Other people may come up with quite some more (please do !), but it may be difficult to grasp what this era of music is about and how it is related to your age. So, Dire Straits doesn't belong to it, as Steve Miller doesn't and Supertramp doesn't. But somehow they bridge the gap from leaving behind the possibly greatest time of all music ages which at least for me is about character in the music, 20 minute long tracks (or otherwise it wouldn't work) and how the rock from then could be used for school parties and dance on it. Yes, isn't that strange. If I only take Child in Time as the example (but now from Made In Japan), and if I'd ask you at the age of 40 to listen to this and imagine that you'd be "slowing" on that 14 minute track each party with a random girl - which by guarantee would lead to a new "relation" ... how did this work ?
Listen to the track - it shouldn't. But back then, at the age of 13, 14, 15 it did. Probably because at least I never dug up the lyrics, and probably because there's something like the wait for the wild and the cooling down again (2x). You'd (both) knew it would be coming.
But what really is the difference with Stairway to Heaven (which was somewhat later and not really "used" by me) or that Gallows Pole I mentioned. This stuff creates tense, but especially because you knew. However, the beat of the when is hard to guess. Shine On you Crazy Diamond (from much later) is similar. Echoes ... all the same.

So, maybe not all masterpieces (well, I think they are), but it worked like maybe only Ravel could do it. And not because of Bo Derek (but she came Ten years too late I think) ...

I don't want to put my thoughts on you, but if you were only 3-4 years younger at that time, it already wouldn't have worked. You would be playing the Beatles or earlier Stones. 3-4 years later ? you wouldn't have gotton the real spirit this era could have pressed on you.
Forever ...

[crisnee]

Thanks so much Peter.

I'm wondering if there any specific masters or remasters or the original transfer to cd of any of the albums you mentioned that you prefer. I think I read somewhere (on CA?) that for instance you had a specific Led Zep II? that you found better than the rest.

Love, "Revelation."

I'm not sure if it qualifies as classic rock, but if not maybe we should include the late 60's. That album really affected me. It was the first album I knew of that included an interminable jam/improv (which I love). I particularly love the soprano sax (which almost sounds like an oboe) section and the slow change of rhythm late in the piece.

Most people consider "Forever Changes," a masterpiece but I gravitate toward Revelation, and the album too. And speaking of revelation, I went to a Love concert in some club in the village (NYC) and had to leave in the middle of the concert because I was literally freaking out (the term back then). It was so loud (way too loud and I liked loud) that I was literally losing my mind  . I actually took myself (along with my girlfriend at the time) to a hospital emergency room. And I wasn't on drugs!

And speaking of Dire Straits, one of my favorite all time songs that meant alot to me too, "Romeo and Juliet," from their second album "Making Movies."

Chris

[crisnee]

Hmm.... not really classic Rock but lately I have been listening to a lot of Allan Taylor, I supposed more folk rather than Rock.
Thanks to Stockfish record who rerecords him with lot of his music from 1970's over the past few years. The sound quality
is excellent and is much better than his original recordings from the 70's. There is at least one SACD and 5-6 CD albums and
a collection on single LP.

I've never heard of him. What's his music like or who is like him, if that's applicable. If I were to give him a try, which album of his would you start with?

Are you saying that his recordings are being reissued by Stockfish or that he's making new recordings of his old music?

Chris

[Calibrator]

A big thumbs up for Allan Taylor also. I first heard him in a few audiophile compilation discs, and after listening I wanted to know more about this folk singer. I now have five of his albums, and 'Colour To The Moon' is as good a place to start as any. In some ways he reminds me of Mark Knopfler tonally when Mark is singing his more mellow tunes.

On Allan Taylor's web site you can sample snippits from some of his albums. He is best served late at night with the lights low and a glass of your favourite at your side

Cheers,

Russ

[Suteetat]

Hmm.... not really classic Rock but lately I have been listening to a lot of Allan Taylor, I supposed more folk rather than Rock.
Thanks to Stockfish record who rerecords him with lot of his music from 1970's over the past few years. The sound quality
is excellent and is much better than his original recordings from the 70's. There is at least one SACD and 5-6 CD albums and
a collection on single LP.

I've never heard of him. What's his music like or who is like him, if that's applicable. If I were to give him a try, which album of his would you start with?

Are you saying that his recordings are being reissued by Stockfish or that he's making new recordings of his old music?

Chris

My favorite album by him right now is Hotels and Dreamers. Color to the Moon is also excellent. Mostly folk ballades, I would think. His voice now is bigger, darker than it was in his albums 30 years ago. The arrangement is a touch bass heavy. Sound quality is as good as anything that came out in the last 5-10 years and better than most, I would say.

I also like the way he sings now better than his older album. I did not know him before I heard his Stockfish recording as well. After that, I checked through ebay and he had quite a number of LPs in the 70's and I ordered a few of those but the sound was quite terrible so I would just stick with his Stockfish stuffs.

His Stockfish recording are all new but I think most of the songs are from his old albums with some reinterpretation and arrangements (for the better, in my opinion).

A bit off topic but on Stockfish label, David Roth's folk, gospel, classic standards are also very nice!

[PeterSt]

I'm wondering if there any specific masters or remasters or the original transfer to cd of any of the albums you mentioned that you prefer.

Well, I have learned to lay everything which is called "remaster" aside. I also don't care anymore about MSFL because very often it's just bogus. Completely the same as the original. But why not anyway ? was the original drawn from a 4th generation CD or something ?

There is no remaster I know of which sounds better. But, there's also the categegory of remasters which just make another track of it. Love from the Beatles is an example. Great work, and the material itself remained untouched (for levels, compression).

Sadly there is also the combination of both. For example, the remasters from Yello contain actually new tracks (or mixed so differently that you'd really like those for a bonus), but the quality is so poor that it's a waste. That is why "sadly".

Peter

[Suteetat]

I disagree a bit with Peter here regarding no remastering that is better than original. I don't have good example of rock/pop/classic rock genre since I don't listen to much of these but a number of albums I have that was released as CDs in the mid 1980's from analogue master presumably with first or early generation AD converter. The original London cast of Les Miserables CD was signficantly worse than the more recent remaster (done in 2002?). I happened to scratch my original disk that I bought in 1986 so I ordered the new remastered one last year and to my surprise, it was a lot better since I still have the original CDs on my hard drive, I could still compare the two version easily. Decca Solti's Ring Cycle was another good example. the original release was ok but it was remastered again in late 1990 or early 2000's I think and then Esoteric remastered it again and released as SACD. Even the CD layer of Esoteric SACD sounds much cleaner than the original CD release.

I agree that some new remaster recordings are pretty bad  and I am not sure why they did not just transcribed the original mastertape without tinkering. However, some remasters are definitely a major improvement over the original one.

[PeterSt]

I already have the first example of an MFSL which clearly is better ...
... and which should be at the top of classics ...

Iron Butterfly - In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida.

The drum solo just started just now ...

[PeterSt]

About Love ...

I didn't know it. Just played Da Capo. Exceptional good quality btw (very Byrds like). Although this is officially Phsychedelic Rock ... I don't see that much. Not from this album. Also, there's so many familiar sounds that it's hard for me to find it original. The Who (which I deliberately didn't mention earlier), The Stones. And, while I earlier read about the latter taking a full LP side track recording parallel to the take of this Da Capo, was fairly sure this will have been Sympathy for the Devil of which I ever owned an indeed 20 minute or so version (I think it was a live version). After hearing Revelation I'm even more sure this was the one (but never looked up the age).
But, I sure can imagine that Revelation could make one wild. Great.

I'm going to listen to the other albums too (can't find the first one).

Peter

[crisnee]

More about Love,

Their first album came out in 1966, Da Capo in 1967 as well as Forever Changes. They only lasted a few years as a real group, then Arthur Lee fronted a psuedo version of Love from 1968-69 on, and it wasn't very good. Arthur Lee also inspired the Doors early on, and maybe that's what your thinking of, as Sympathy for the Devil wasn't released until a year after Da Capo.

Sympathy for the Devil came out in 1968, and the great live version on "Get Your Ya-Ya's Out!" didn't come out until 1970; it had Mick Taylor on guitar along with Keith. And speaking of the Byrds, back at the time I made a tape where I combined "Lover of the Bayou," the live version with that live "Sympathy for the Devil." Started it out with those great raunchy chords on Lover... and slid it/faded in Sympathy as Lover ended. Great! It could really get you going.... down. I had reel-to-reel tape decks back then, loved them. My favorite was a Tandberg.

I swear you mentioned something about very good remasters of a couple of early Led Zep albums somewhere.

Chris

[crisnee]

Suteetat,

Thanks for all the info, I'll definitely try to take a listen to some of his Stockfish recordings (I started to type swordfish but then thought that didn't smell quite right and checked back on your message).

And I agree about the remasters, I've definitely heard some that were significantly better than at least the original transfer to cd (can't say as to the lp as often I didn't know it, or if I did, I didn't remember it clearly enough unless it was particularly good or bad. I've also heard some where I wondered why they bothered.

Chris

[PeterSt]

Arthur Lee also inspired the Doors early on, and maybe that's what your thinking of

Sh*t man, you must be right. I really was very confused at trying to get the to the origins (no matter who was first) of those sounds. The Doors should be in that list definitely. At least L.A. Woman passes by several times per year ... for - how many years ? Cars hiss by my window ...

The rock music from that era (say end 60's up to maybe 71) all carry the same "hollow" nature in the sound. I don't know whether you can perceive that (NOS1 users sure will), and I wonder what it is about. Highs are superb, spatiousness is enorm, and one thing springs from it : genuinity. Not only from the performers (who were in that same psychedelic age as we were of course) but also what was (not) done to the recording. Somehow. You can almost call it superbad sound, but it is super good. Take Syd Barrett. He continued with that GREAT open sound while Pink Floyd went towards today's sound.

About Led Zeppelin remasters ... maybe you are confused with this reply to me from Barry Diament ? :

Interesting you mention the old Led Zeppelin CDs. I did all the originals (except for the fourth album, aka "Zoso" - with "Stairway To Heaven", which was done at the Warner division in Los Angeles, before Atlantic in NY made me the CD mastering "department".) It is gratifying to see that they are still sought out today, even though those have been remastered a few times since.

I just looked it up, and saw that I have a Remaster of Houses of The Holy. Hmm ... must try it.

You can also be confused with my raving about Dread Zeppelin. Great sound, great basses, great fun. Could be better than Led Zeppelin. This is what I tell more often ...

[crisnee]

Yeah that's what I read about the Led Zeppelin. Does that mean he produced the originals, not the remasters?

About Love. Don't worry about finding their first album, it only had one or two good songs on it. "My Little Red Book," comes to mind as the song. And yes there is a kind of hollowness to their sound. I hadn't thought of it that way; and it does sound right for the music, whatever that means. But it definitely isn't very "hi-fi." Maybe it's the lack of highs which exposes the hollowness more than if it had those sparkling highs. I have "Forever Changes," playing as I'm writing. It is such a cool album. Not your typical psychedelia or typical anything.

I have some remasters of Jefferson Airplane cds which supposedly were good, I'll have to listen to them for sound quality to see if they have that hollowness, or if not, how they sound. I particularly like their somewhat odd album "After Bathing at Baxter's," or something like that.

So much of my music I have in only digital format (ripped to HDD) and I don't have the info of what it was ripped from originally so I never know exactly which production/remaster whatever I'm listening to. I'm very bad when it comes to record keeping.

Chris