Peter's best Classic Rock recordings/cds/remasters

[PeterSt]

Maybe it's the lack of highs which exposes the hollowness more than if it had those sparkling highs.

But I said

I don't know whether you can perceive that (NOS1 users sure will), and I wonder what it is about. Highs are superb, spatiousness is enorm, and one thing springs from it : genuinity.

So, highs *are* sparkling here, but I expect that not to be so on other DACs. This is how The Beatles started to sound normal instead of so grayish, and how Syd Barrett started to sound very interesting instead of a man on drugs only.


The Houses of The Holys remaster sounded fairly ok yesterday, but I guess I don't like the "massiveness" from the tracks of that album. Also there's flanger on tracks that work through in the cymbals, and it is hard to believe that was intended at the recording. At least I never heard it, but then the last time I played it must be over 10 years back (with a much poorer system).


Yes, Barry produced the first three Led Zeppelin CDs. Mind you, not the recordings. On that matter IV will have been from the CD age, while I, II, III were not and had to be done afterwards.

We may think about the reasons for a remaster, apart from a commercial thing and many may want that "new version". Was it done wrong the first time ? Must it be loud(ness)er today ? Do we have better equipment today maybe ? Well, if the latter, I don't believe much that it works out for the better.

[crisnee]

But I said

I don't know whether you can perceive that (NOS1 users sure will), and I wonder what it is about. Highs are superb, spatiousness is enorm, and one thing springs from it : genuinity.

Peter, this doesn't make sense to me, unless the NOS1 is adding highs to recordings, or we have different ideas of what those highs are. Because whatever the condition of those highs, I do agree, genuineness does spring from "Da Capo."

If a system is capable of  producing "sparkling highs," why would it choose not to on particular albums, or even tracks. For instance as I'm typing this I'm watching/listening to a concert DVD. It has excerpts from several concerts on it, the first sounded great with "sparkling highs," the next dull and lacking. By the way, what I consider dull lacking highs actually hurt my ears--literally.

Humble Pie was a favorite of mine of the early heavy rock stuff. Loved Steve Marriot's crazed voice. "Rock On," and the next couple of albums.

Chris

[crisnee]

Peter,

I just read the other topic in NOS1, which refers to this topic. First off you said "Also it is too far away to make clear or to be understood well, I'm afraid. See Chris's example. He interprets it as plain bad quality sound, while it is exactly the other way around."

I did not interpret it as bad quality sound. I actually find the sound quite good and having that quality of genuineness which you remarked upon. I found that the highs did not sparkle but somehow in this case it was not bothersome.

And maybe that's a clue (the highs did not sparkle but somehow in this case it was not bothersome) to what you were discussing in the other post.

There was a study (Japanese I think) which determined that people reacted differently (with more of a pleasure response) to music that included highs that they could not hear than to the same music without those highs. They were speaking of highs above 20 khz if I remember correctly, but the same principal would apply here.

Perhaps the highs did get recorded but at a very low level and the engineers/producers because of lacking equipment didn't hear them. Now your NOS1 is able to pick them up and reproduce them along with other things the engineers recorded but didn't hear. This might explain why you get the bad with the good.

-Chris

[PeterSt]

Humble Pie ... early Fleetwood Mac ... yes ! I still regularly must tell my wife that Fleetwood Mac really isn't a womens band. Haha

If a system is capable of  producing "sparkling highs," why would it choose not to on particular albums, or even tracks.

This is rather unclear to me, but I think I can refer to Physical Graffity as the example (I didn't listen to it for years). This is grayish sound. The opposite from beautiful. This grayisch emerges from smear. But smear where ?
If I look at the evolution of how things happened here, I think I can say that this may not be smear at all, but just a "too close to eachother" high frequencies to work out on a normal system. Of course, high frequencies are high frequencies, but now the level plays a role too. So, hide that (by poor microphones etc.) or have it in. In this case (Physical Graffity) it is in. Too bad, because our systems can't differentiate the high resolution, and *the system* smears it. Until our systems change and can cope, then suddenly it becomes the most profound.

I always have the example of (sweeped) brushes, which seem to be a tough subject for DACs. Two years back I never heard them. Today ? today they blast through the room like crazies. But think what brushes are; IMO this may well be the highest resolution possible because of metal sweeping over a veil with the most fine (animal) structure, and the On/Off of that goes so fast that without care is vanishes totally. This is all a DAC's work; I never changed my amps or speakers ...

It also will depend on the frequencies in there. Take Enigma. Always that very profound grayish sound from sampled cymbals or something. At some stage that improved somewhat to more live cymbals (or more fresh, a litle more sparkling). But further ? it stays exactly the same. A too low resolution to begin with. 8 bit samplers in the synths or something. Vangelis, the same. There are many more of them. But most certainly not all the new "ambient" stuff. Man, each little tweak I apply and those get so much better that you completely won't recognize thise albums anymore.

Nice hobby ..

[crisnee]

"I always have the example of (sweeped) brushes, which seem to be a tough subject for DACs."

Peter,

Could you give me a name or two of examples (of common albums that I might own) of the sound of brushes that you are referring to. I understand what you mean by the sound, I think (very delicate but distinctive). On occasion I've heard them sound pretty good from some of my cds, but of course I can't place them at the moment.

Chris

[PeterSt]

Almost random Jazz ? Oscar Peterson ?

I will try to think of it tonight at playback time.

[PeterSt]

Could you give me a name or two of examples (of common albums that I might own) of the sound of brushes that you are referring to.

Just ran into a rather excessive one :
Lisa Ekdahl, Peter Nordahl Trio - Back to Earth / Laziest Girl in Town

Somewhere in the middle the brushes stop for one second; it then becomes sooo quiet ...

[PeterSt]

Just a second Jazz(ish) I ran tonight ...

Tord Gustavson Trio - The Ground / Reach out and Touch it

But it's really everywhere ...

[crisnee]

Just a second Jazz(ish) I ran tonight ...

Tord Gustavson Trio - The Ground / Reach out and Touch it

But it's really everywhere ...

It may be everywhere (which it is) but not always easy to find when called upon and  not always well recorded, which is what I'm after.

I have this album, as a matter of fact I have a few of the Tord Trio.

-Chris

[PeterSt]

It is not only about using the brushes at "brushing". But also (or merely) about brushes being used in the first place (also to smash around I mean). If you take the next track from that Tord Gustavson trio you'd have the clear example of that.
But that is 95% of jazz really.

Not that I could perceive that a few years back ...

[PeterSt]

Also, there's so many familiar sounds that it's hard for me to find it original.

After playing Love - Forever Changes yesterday, I finally knew ! Apart from perceiving some Pink Floyd influences, it is now totally clear :
The Moody Blues.



Not something I really went for ...

[crisnee]

Also, there's so many familiar sounds that it's hard for me to find it original.

After playing Love - Forever Changes yesterday, I finally knew ! Apart from perceiving some Pink Floyd influences, it is now totally clear :
The Moody Blues.



Not something I really went for ...

You've got to be kidding (that would be yoking in Dutch or is it Danish)? I'm going to have to think long and hard about that and try to hear it in my head, and then kill myself.

-Chris

[PeterSt]

Haha. I must honestly say I too was disappointed about finding out. I really wanted to add to my previous post "I hope I'm not embarrassing you", but thought that would be silly or something. But hey, the Moody Blues are not The Shadows ...

I think it gets really bad when one -in a later stage- went for Neil Diamond. I did, sort of. Half. It was that period I bought a couple of Moody Blues as well. Bad youth I guess. Early life crisis.

Somehow this reminds me of a track I was very familiar with at the time : The Motor Cycle Song from Arlo Guthrie (http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/motorcycle-alice.shtml)
I never got around to get this track or album; a friend of mine had it and we played it often. I recall it was quite a longer track than the lyrics (link) imply. Mind you, I must have been 13 or so. I really can't imagine the seriousness I recall. Ok, I must have been 14. Haha.

[crisnee]

Haha. I must honestly say I too was disappointed about finding out. I really wanted to add to my previous post "I hope I'm not embarrassing you", but thought that would be silly or something. But hey, the Moody Blues are not The Shadows ...

I think it gets really bad when one -in a later stage- went for Neil Diamond. I did, sort of. Half. It was that period I bought a couple of Moody Blues as well. Bad youth I guess. Early life crisis.

Somehow this reminds me of a track I was very familiar with at the time : The Motor Cycle Song from Arlo Guthrie (http://www.arlo.net/resources/lyrics/motorcycle-alice.shtml)
I never got around to get this track or album; a friend of mine had it and we played it often. I recall it was quite a longer track than the lyrics (link) imply. Mind you, I must have been 13 or so. I really can't imagine the seriousness I recall. Ok, I must have been 14. Haha.

Ok, I'm getting serious now. First of all I will not admit that I am at the moment while typing this listening to the Moody Blues, since that would imply that I own some of their music. But, if I were listening to them I would tell you that they did not influence LOVE. They don't know what love is, pathos maybe, sentimental hygiene--I mean slush, most likely. Yes that's it. Rather pleasant that "Nights in White Satin" though. 

And to further prove to you that the Moodys did not influence Love I did some research. Neither "The Great Rock Discography" by Martin Strong, nor All-Music cited the MBs as influences. They did cite among others, The Byrds, Beatles, Kinks, Zombies, Loving Spoonful and Hollies.

And last but surely least they both started pretty much at the same time and Love's better albums just slightly preceded MB's known albums. It's likely that Love never even **heard MB as they didn't tour and were pretty much strictly an L.A. band in there early and great days (they didn't start touring until after their best days).

Well if we're going to go into music we listened to when we were 13 then let me just say that songs like "Bobby's Girl," and "Poetry in Motion," were one's I might have heard--heard possibly being too neutral a term as a description of my interest at the time. But time may have deranged my memories.

And why in heaven's name do you listen to that long Steve Miller track,    I forget the name, six times a year. I listened to it once after you wrote that and will find it rather difficult to listen to it again. Should I? Did I miss something?

Maybe the MBs were influenced by Love but they didn't know how to show it ?

**I mean before they produced their first particularly memorable songs on Da Capo.
-Chris

[crisnee]

Not to beat the subject to a pulp, but I will unless physically restrained; here's a quote from "Albums, the Stories Behind 50 Years of Great Recording."

"Frequently hailed as a classic of psychedelia, Love's third album, Forever Changes, is actually that much rarer artifact: and album that exists in its own category."

I think this implies at the least no specific influence, or very many influences very well digested and commingled. In other words no stinking badges, er... Moody Blues.

-Chris