xxhiend and hqplayer

[mmc]

I have been listening to these two players for days now.  Both are very good, truly heads and shoulders above foobar , winamp etc.

now quick comparison

HQplayer sounds much better in my system.  I switched to xxhiend again earlier today and could not wait to return to HQPlayer.  I like every respect of HQ sound over that of xxhiend:  details, sound stage, imaging, space, dynamics, bass extension and on and on.

HDplayer is much faster in putting a track into play.  I understand from PeterSt's write up that he fully processes the whole track before playing.  I believe thats true from the latency time which also depends on whether it is 44.1KHz or 192K.  Effect of changing volume is also longer in xxhiend, this is dangerous because I over cranked the volume a couple of times.
 
the xxhiend UI is better but not by much.

The relationship between upsampling target and DAC requirement is very confusing.  I specified dac requires 192/24 but keep getting error when I tried to 4x upsample redbook CD to 88.2K.  same error message when I tried to play 96K tracks; I had to redefine DAC to be 96K/24. There is no choice for 88.2/24.  very confusing and inconvenient.  I had read through every topic Peter wrote for dummies and newbies, but still am not enlightened.
 
both players clicks between tracks, hqplayer less so.
 
I do love PeterST's NOS DAC project  I think that's the future.  Will start saving money.

[PeterSt]

First a small remark (which looks like a question ) ... If you haven't got running 90% of XXHighEnd yet, how can you compare the SQ with any other player ? I don't think that is possible.
So, let's try to get this going ...

The sample rate stuff is setup such that you only need to apply your logic. This is a bit strange maybe, because unexpected and not working like that in other players. Still it is the most easy because of that logic. One thing to keep in mind : XXHighEnd can only play "bit perfect", to the sense of it not resampling to any other rate than you denote. It just won't, can't - and that is for the good cause. What plays is what you tell it to, and nothing else. If it won't play, this (eithet or both) can be the matter :

- You set a wrong setting;
- Your DAC can't do what you think it can.

Now, with "DAC Is" you denote what your DAC can do for its maximum capabilities. Is it a 24/192 DAC ? then choose that.

"DAC Needs" is about whether it needs 16, 24 or 32 bits to play. Here too, tell XX what your DAC needs. But, this may be a little confusing and not always clear;

16 is not so much in order, unless at "DAC Is" you chose a 16 bit DAC. In that case it is clear : it can't do more than 16 bits. Although more rare, DACs with a higher than 48KHz sample rates but 16 bits only, exist. Altmann for example.

24 is unexpectedly also not often in order, but more and more DACs exist which can only accept 24 bits. Often this will be async USB DACs. Only choose this when you find 32 not working and be careful about static (when 24 is applied to a DAC which wants 32, you'll have just that).

32 is most often the case. But don't get confused : All those 24/192 DACs just "need" 32 or otherwise they can't work. Of course a 32/192 DAC also needs 32, but this is obvious.

Now there's the "96/192 Only" setting. This is for the few DACs around which cannot play 88.2 and 176.4. Well, they sure will be able to (once they can do 96 - 192), but the driver won't allow it. If you now want to "upsample" from 44.1 you'll have a problem, because the normal "upsampling" goes in even factors. Normal for XXHighEnd is Arc Prediction.
Now, if you activate that "96/192 Only" you can upsample from 44.1 to 96 or 192, but you can't use Arc Prediction anymore. It must be Anti Imaging (AI).

Advice : never use any upsampling means ever, unless it is Arc Prediction (AP). You can do what you want of course but I say/state (!) that it won't be better. It is slow either (because all happens in advance). AP is from another leage because it is no general "upsampling" means at all. It a one of its kind interpolation algorithm, actually made for the NOS1 DAC, but about everybody uses it because it sounds better, and eliminates the "bad" in-DAC normal filtering. Btw, this is why I put "upsampling" between quotes, because it really is about filtering.

Btw, both Miska from HQPlayer and me are on this "filtering" path and we sure agree about what to do when and where and why. What you (and everybody) must try to understand is that all *is* about this filtering, which normally happens in-DAC and which is always a poor implementation of something which just *is* necessary (well, for redbook it is). So, that is what we both are about (and no other as far as I know) ... to undermine what happens poorly in a DAC. The results of this are quite unpredictable though because it can also backfire on you because of how the DAC works. But this is why the NOS1 is there ... it does nothing. So, only there those in-software filtering algorithms can fully exploit themselves. Keep in mind : those "upsamplers" (like XX's AI !) are BS to this regard. They are as BS as what happens in-DAC and have no purpose other than, well, "upsampling".
Arc Prediction is "upscaling" like video can be upscaled, and it implies real higher resolution (but still estimated).

Ok, I'll stop here. Now, if something doesn't work, please try to explain what yoo try to play, what your settings are to this regard, and mention the name of your DAC. If there are error messages, let them know.

Regards,
Peter


PS: When you have things working normally, aim for Unattended (no GUI) mode. It is there where all happens, but don't forget the various controls which vastly influence sound.

[stefanobilliani]

Hi all ,

it's difficult to me to explain , I use also linux engines for sound and many times I step between linux and windows . But in my little system ( and wonderful amplifiers such Firstwatt F5 ) XX high end plays music far better than hq . It just work out somehow to me , and that's a very good thing . Thanks Peter for your precious work .

[mmc]

yes fair comments, peter.
I have a pcm1794a driven by cs4816 receiver.   
to confuse things some more. I played a 96K track this morning (Carol Kidd, Linn record) with exactly the same setting as before (DAC is 192/24 no upsample), the setting that gave me error message. It just played, no error, no hassle!!  This is the same track that required me to change to DAC is 96/24 yesterday.
thanks for the explanation on sample rate stuff, I still don't get it, but will read that again.  (and ask questions aagain).
regarding "never use upsmaple"
I had insisted on "bit perfect" for a long time, but had changed my mind (your writeup had some influence), because modern DACs are all oversampling devices (they sound better than old designs).  so by the time the real DAC sees the bits, they are no longer "perfect"; they had been messed with either by software or internally in the chip.  As long as someone will mess around with my bits, I might as well find the someone I like.
regarding "and which is always a poor implementation of something which just *is* necessary". 
Until I can completely switch from redbook CD to HD tracks  (BTW some HD tracks aren't any better.  eg 88.2K Jazz at the pawnshop from HDtracks.com), I am stuck with it.  How do you disable the internal filtering?  pcm1794a allows for external filter, but I have not yet tried that because I have not found an external filter that is really attractive.  pacific microsonics pmd200 has good reviews, but is extremely rare.  building one out of DSP seems too much work.  maybe there is a way to trick pcm1794 into thinking there is a phantom external filter.
Again, I completely agree that NOS1 DAC is the way to go, I just need some time to save enough money.