Analogue source still better?

[GerardA]

Because I had some spare time I put some time in my vinyl setup, put a new old cart in and listened.
I was surprised with the quality of my old cart and found myself wanting to listen more everytime a record had finished.
Something I still miss with digital, but then I have no NOS1.
Wondering why I think one aspect of digital we/Peter cannot improve is the jitter in the recording ADC?

But to find out a little for myself I managed to record through the phase 24FW on Win7.
So to me it sounds better then the digital (flac) version, but is this only in my system/ears?
And what on a proper DAC like the NOS1.
So here is the download: (3 days 15 downloads max)

https://www.filemail.com/nl/dl.aspx?id=FANAMTMTMJRBKNC

Apart from a little extra distortion pops and clicks that anyone can hear I wonder what people hear?

Maybe the way to go is digitize my complete vinyl collection??

[PeterSt]

Hey Gerard,

I think it is known already that recording yourself from vinyl (having no clue about molesting stuff like digital sound engineers do !) just will sound like vinyl. The DAC will matter allright, but the general character will be that from vinyl.
Let this be similar to my own recording of some drumming, which is my miles and miles far far (far) better than any redbook or hires album I own. And I too did not know how to molest things (the recording was sampled at only 16/44.1 BUT has to be played back with (NOS1) 24/352.8 ! ...)

Peter

[GerardA]

Yes I know it sounds like vinyl, but for me this looks like something went wrong with the making of the CD(/rip).
A part of the music is missing. My question then is how to get this back?
Can we hope for improved music in the future when the CD-makers start to use Hires?
Or should we only buy HiRes material to enjoy the music?
And in the mean time tell each other of the exceptions that still exist?
Ripping vinyl is not my intention yet, because I will need a better ADC since I hear still a difference between my vinyl and the digital copy I don't like.
I made another recording of Nick Cave and his voice gets to metallic/hard.
BTW, with a good setup vinyl sounds more like the Cart your using then the vinyl itself.
And of course the electronics are most of the times a big bottleneck.

[PeterSt]

There is no solution, since the damage has been done for redbook already, and hi-res is only WORSE.

Regarding the latter, I have all sorted it out already, but need quite some time to make a structured story from it. So, later ...

In the mean time ... redbook isn't *that* bad, and it's only that it can be (could have been) improved upon. But it really needs that well-done DAC (I mean, made for redbook). Well, you know ... 

[manisandher]

Hi GerardA, I will download your file when I get home this weekend and take a listen then. But my experience of recording from vinyl seems to match yours closely - recorded 16/44.1 files sound substantially better than most CD rips. HOWEVER, with a [properly broken in] NOS1 most CD rips sound very, very listenable... so much so, in fact, that I no longer even think about buying hirez files.

In the mean time ... redbook isn't *that* bad, and it's only that it can be (could have been) improved upon.

Do you mean it could have been 20bit/60KHz, or something? Or are you talking about the quality of the ADC?

Now that I have a DAC capable of getting the best out of 16/44.1 files, I'm going to reassess the resolution I use for recording from vinyl. I had decided to go for 24/192, even though this always seemed like overkill to me. But it may be that this is no longer necessary if a NOS1 is used for playback. Something to try when I have some time...

... hi-res is only WORSE... I have all sorted it out already, but need quite some time to make a structured story from it. So, later ...

I very much look forward to hearing your thoughts about this Peter.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Mani,

Do you mean it could have been 20bit/60KHz, or something? Or are you talking about the quality of the ADC?

Merely what has been done to go from the higher resolution to 16/44.1.
or (!)
Recordings taken with DSD ... (and how to get to 16/44.1 from there).


Native DXD ( 24/352.8 ) sounds superb.

Peter

[GerardA]

Ok, then I'll need an DXD-ADC!
XXHE will be able to play DXD?

BTW, when playing vinyl on a lot of records I hear the noisefloor going up when a track starts.
On CD this doesn't happen so I guess they did a denoise to prevent complaints/make it look better.
With the noise the small details have disappeared too.

Maybe in the future they do rereleases of the original mastertapes in a better quality or is this a naive thought?
Since Cat Stevens is visiting our country soon I had to play his records and No we can not miss the old music!

[PeterSt]

BTW, when playing vinyl on a lot of records I hear the noisefloor going up when a track starts.
On CD this doesn't happen so I guess they did a denoise to prevent complaints/make it look better.

Although soooo obvious (when we think about this) it is also soooo important for a "finding".
So yes, the older recordings (usually originating from tape) contained tape hiss for 100%.
Well, I have been trying to denoise tapes I have (once put into the digital domain), but there's no way this will work out for the better (not with the amateur software I used for it).

So I guess you have something here ?
hmm ...


PS: Yes, of course XXHE can play DXD. But a DXD ADC ... forget about that ($$$$$). But the whole point is : this isn't necessary at all. As long as you don't hand your vinyl to a recording engineer.

PPS: Maybe a strange advise would be to listen to the NOS1 somewhere, and play back your own vinyl "rips" there. They really will sound the same as if they were played on that same equipment by means of a turn table.
(but of course the sound really comes from the cartridge etc. used)

[GerardA]

I will need a better ADC since I hear still a difference between my vinyl and the digital copy I don't like.

Well the gap got much smaller.
One thing is not to normalize to - 3dB like I did, but amplify with 6 or 12 dB. (Can be done in Adobe Audition, not in DC8 like I used the first time).
The other maybe more important is that the buffersize in special mode could be set much lower and this is really impressive.
Before I had problems with the lower settings, maybe it's the quality of the recording that gives lesser buffer overflows and glitches?

Now I can happily listen to my rips all day!