HOW I´VE BUILT MY NEW PC FOR XXHIGHEND AND WHY I´VE CHOSEN THE COMPONENTS

[PeterSt]

Yes Juan, those coolers are exactly on my list with all having a downside somewhere (but I have a couple more on my list). Btw, notice that the NH-L12 can also have the (or another) 120mm on the bottom side (this is not all that obvious, but it is official).

I dream about these things by now ...

Thanks,
Peter

PS: When you hunt for an "audio look" cabinet, its limits are the height. 14cm (13 without feet) IMO is the limit for that, or otherwise it starts to be a "PC". The WxD doesn't matter much and just as well can be "pro size" (something like 43cm width). But it really is a challenge, and I found exactly one cabinet that does my job. And notice that somewhat less tall could still work (12-13cm), but one of my "musts" are 120mm (low rev) cooling fans. This makes the selection small fast ...
Next, the major components are nowhere available from one supplier (that I can find), so it really is a matter of getting in a cabinet, a mobo, a cooler and low profile memory (which by itself is cooling-related) for the cooler I have in mind. And indeed, or the thing has separate voltage connections which must suffice at the lower revs regarding heat dissipation, or it needs PWM which as you know I don't like. It can only be done with trial and error. But here the dissipation of the cabinet itself plays a large role too (those fans needing to run at low revs as well). Still a matter of trial and error. But if it works it would be superb. Then there's the fastest system in about the smallest cabinet (and quiet) (not counting in dual Xeons of course).

[juanpmar]

Ok Peter, once you find the perfect combination of box size and outstanding performance/sound many of us will follow you (again)

 

Best regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

I turned off the hyper threading so now only 6 cores are working. I´m not sure that it is faster with the flac tracks because it has to stop every 5 tracks. About if it sounds better without hyper threading I don´t know yet but it doesn´t seem something really evident.

My very personal opinion without really knowing (!!) ...

Nick explicitly talked about a "package", and of course he says that for a reason. But but but ...

... Again, personally, I can not believe that even within two months of time it is possible to judge this all because of the so many combinations. So, that it is all good theory (where is the theory ? <- I can imagine something of course) is 100% accepted. But whether it really makes a difference for SQ and whether -if so- it could not be attacked by other means (higher/lower the SFS, change whatever all of those other settings) ... who knows. And then to trade processor threads for always and ever two times more slow (FLAC) loading ? ... I don't know.

Of course we could say something like : when we shut off hyperthreading we got rid of the core parking virtual problem (to sort out). But that would be a strange solution.

Anyway, all the ideas are great, but before trading them for conveniency (mounting linear PSUs for HDDs amongst that) I would really look for other solutions to the same. For example (regarding the HDDs) : it looks theoretically good to remove all the not used HDDs from power (why not actually), but if the lot don't spin anyway, what for ?
... That it may require explicitly spin-down stuff from my side is something else, but it is on my list for ages anyway (and it can be done, as well as the annoying spin up when needed).
Also, what happens when everything is USB3 based as I told about ? So, one powered USB3 hub, and the PC sees one USB3 connection only (for supply).

No, I am not saying that I know better, but I will say that more ways may lead to Rome and they should be considered once conveniency is in order. That's all.

Peter

[juanpmar]

Yes, too many changes at the same time to judge it quickly, time will say but in some way Nick is a pioneer so we are lucky that he´s working hard to get better sound everyday,

some other people are working hard too, what a hell!,  ALL here are working hard to get better sound with XX. Meanwhile we are enjoying it, of course... 

About the Noctua you mentioned, yes it has two fans, you can use one or two, in my music pc I have a Noctua NH-U12P SE2 and only use one fan and I can put it on one side or the other of the cpu cooler.

Best regards
Juan

[juanpmar]

Hi Nick,

I forgot to ask you, what´s your GPU?, I don´t understand well how it is refrigerated with the Reserator1.

Best regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

but in some way Nick is a pioneer so we are lucky that he´s working hard to get better sound everyday

Maybe not even in "some way" but in a most explicit (and good) way.
Sounds contradictionary to what I said in the earlier post ? Maybe. So, the "package" undoubtedly works out (because Nick says so).
Okay, I'm out of words and in a loop; I just wanted to let know that what Nick says can be trusted, but I guess I put a few things into context.

Peter

[Nick]

but in some way Nick is a pioneer so we are lucky that he´s working hard to get better sound everyday

Maybe not even in "some way" but in a most explicit (and good) way.
Sounds contradictionary to what I said in the earlier post ? Maybe. So, the "package" undoubtedly works out (because Nick says so).
Okay, I'm out of words and in a loop; I just wanted to let know that what Nick says can be trusted, but I guess I put a few things into context.

Peter

I just went out for some groceries and was composing a reply to Juan's kind words in my mind on the way but now I see that Peter has already made a comment which is also very kind. Thanks both.

What I wanted to say is that IMHO there is one pioneer who posts regularly on this site. This person is well known by us all for not just relying on subjective experiment to discover improvements but who always seeks to address fundamentally the theories in his own developments our others proposals. Were it not for Peter's approach I believe that computer music reproduction would not have moved on like it has in the last 5 years, at times it has been is dizzying listening to what has been achieved.

So Juan thanks for the kind words but I am just a slightly obsessive and compulsive type enjoying trying things out and sharing the results. Pioneer is a little strong in such towering company 

Kind regards,
Nick.

[Nick]

Hi Nick,

I forgot to ask you, what´s your GPU?, I don´t understand well how it is refrigerated with the Reserator1.

Best regards,
Juan

Juan hi,

I have updated the PC spec post I made earlier with the card details.

The Resorator comes as standard with two water cooling "blocks" one for the CPU and one for a graphics card. You don't have to use the Graphics cooling block but I did for fun. The standard heat sink on the card can easily be removed and replaced with the secong cooling block. The return water from the CPU cooling block is then routed into and out of the Graphics cooling block on its way back to the radiator.

Regards,

Nick.

[Nick]

Peter,

Nick explicitly talked about a "package", and of course he says that for a reason. But but but ...

You have homed in on a key point, I did stress that the package seems to work well. Individually each tweek moves a slight shroud of distortion / noise from different aspects of the sound in different places. Taken together something slightly more seems to happen than the sum of the small changes. I am not sure why at the moment.

... Again, personally, I can not believe that even within two months of time it is possible to judge this all because of the so many combinations.

What I have done is to apply stuff that I have tried and trusted for a number of years to this new PC build. Its not an entirely     random selection. It may be that there are some "dead wood" changes in the list but I am reasonably confident that most contribute.

The interesting thing is that going back a few years I could hear the differences that each of these tweaks made but there was just too much other noise and distortion coming from other factors in the reproduction chain to make them “important”. With the NOS1 USB, a decent mother board (doh that old mobo was such a problem !) USB3 etc etc things are generally now are so good that what was a "small and interesting" effect before now seems to be quite important.

On a couple of points

Having no fans we all know about the motor noise issues.

Taking power off DVD, SSD and HDDs I am confident that whilst the 12v supply to rotate drives do have an effect the 5v supply that powers control circuits + the additional instance of software drivers + the additional active hardware controllers also have a sonic effect. For this reason for the very best reproduction I have found for a long time its best to remove power to additional drives. As you say not very convenient if you need more flexibility to do other things with the PC.

I have been looking in to linear power for the rest of the Mobo eg main +12 +5 +3.3 and -12v rails. There are folks on the net claiming this is really good for replay but this is more for academic interest as it will not be a practical solution for many running 4 high current bench supplies.

It’s a real pain sometimes that the community is so spread across the world, wouln't it would be great to just be able to say come take a listen what do you think ? For all I know the sound I'm listen to would have folks running from the room   

Best Nick

Oh an extra thought on packaging the PC. The power switch on my (free from any house hold dump) PC case packed up a couple of days ago. Fortunately the Asus mobo has a power button on it so right now I am having to reach inside to turn on. One side effect is that I have no space or cooling issues as the side of the PC case cannot be fitted, I am not sure that the audiance for you new system would appreciate such features 

[juanpmar]

but in some way Nick is a pioneer so we are lucky that he´s working hard to get better sound everyday

Maybe not even in "some way" but in a most explicit (and good) way.
Sounds contradictionary to what I said in the earlier post ? Maybe.

Not in my opinion, I understood correctly your words and what you wanted to say. I hope my words were also understood, far from any second intention here.

Nick or anyone else, could explain in an easy way how to build a linear power supply for the drive and what should be the specifications?

Kind regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

The interesting thing is that going back a few years I could hear the differences that each of these tweaks made but there was just too much other noise and distortion coming from other factors in the reproduction chain to make them “important”. With the NOS1 USB, a decent mother board (doh that old mobo was such a problem !)

Nicky-o ...

Without words this is exactly what I was referring to. I mean, I know as no one else but yourself how much troubles you went through to FINALLY get where you are now. It is almost to sad to describe, while in the midsts of your problems (more than we all together ever encountered) you tried to improve and in the mean time DID do this fine job. Well, only you now about it ...
So my completely underwater and in between the lines remark was : how to do this all *and* knowing that only for a "few days" you have it going like you attempted to for - how long ? ... should be 18 months.

But I don't know much how to make this clear.
Well, that you must live in a haunted house, may people outside of the UK understand something of it ...

Kindest regards - and the most happy that you are where you are now !!
Peter


PS: I just want to put emphasis on this : If you only look how Nick guided us through a couple of things lately - and which things are related to the NOS1-USB, WHILE he could just listen to distorted music with the DAC section shut off, and which distorted music was just audible at low level passages while normally playing ... what can I say ...

[PeterSt]

Hi Peter,

These fans could perhaps be useful for your project:

For those interested, and since I'm with my nose in the list again, this Noctua is 9mm lower when the top fan is not mounted : http://noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=37&lng=en&set=2 (NH-C14 with 140mm fans). So, contrary to the NH-C12P SE14, with this one a bottom fan can be used which makes it lower in the end (with top fan not mounted).

Peter

[HaraldN]

My PC for XXHighend:

This PC is built foremost for no noise. No fans are used. 
SQ I think is good, the best until now for me,  but I don`t have any good references to compare with so I don`t know.
I am connecting the Phasure NOS1 to the USB 3.0 port with USB 2.0 cabel.

Processor:
Intel Core i5-2400 Processor at 3.1GHz, 4 cores, no HT, Sandy Bridge, Socket 1155.

Motherboard:
ASUS P8Z77-V LX. Z77 chipset with integrated USB 3.0 from intel.

Memory:
Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHz 16GB

Cooling:
No fans are used.

CPU cooler:
Noctua NH-D14 CPU Cooler used without fans. (I use 1 fan under installing/heavy CPU work, the fan is not needed when playing music.)

Discs:
OS Disc: Western Digital SATAIII WD10EZRX  1000GB (Low power, low heat and quiet)
Music Disc: Western Digital SATAII WD AV-GP 2TB (Low power, low heat and quiet)

(DVD/Blueray drive only connected during installing OS.)     

Power supply:
Seasonic X-400 Gold Fanless.

Graphics: Internal Intel IGP (clocked minimum)

Case:
Fractal Design Define R3. No fans are used. It has room for two topmounted fans, but i open up without any fans, so the heat can go up and out. Cold air from the floor will be sucked up through the bottom of the case when the heat from the cpu/Discs/PSu vents out on the top.

Operating system:
Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit sp1 installed directly from Microsoft DVD. No update's applied.

Mouse on PS2-port, and keyboard on USB.

Harald

[manisandher]

PM me when you get to step 5)...

Hi Nick, PM sent...

Cheers, Mani.

[manisandher]

This is strange...

I'm trying to use 2 'regular' computer PSs  (both Seasonic) - one for the mobo and one for all other peripheral devices. I can power the whole PC from either PS no problem, i.e both PSs work fine. But when I connect the mobo to one PS and the peripheral devices to the other PS, the peripheral devices remain totally dead and are not detected. If I swap the two PSs, I get the same result! So it seems a 'regular' computer PS will simply remain dormant unless it detects a mobo.

Weird. Anyone know why this should be?

Mani.