Version 9i and absolute phase

[xp9433]

Great news Peter, and big big THANKS.

I have always been a big fan of using absolute phase controls when listening to music. I had been wondering how I was going to achieve it with a computer based system after selling my Plinius pre-amp. You have solved my problem!

Any chance you could think about setting your program up to remember, or pick up a flag attached to each wav file, showing the correct absolute phase/user preference for each title - preferrably each track - as set by the listener????

Here is why I ask:

For those of you not used to the merits of having correct absolute phase/polarity, and having control flexibility, you might consider that:
* Approximately 30% of recordings are clearly recorded out of absolute phase and
* Approximately 30% of recordings are clearly recorded in absolute phase, with
* The balance of approximately 40% of recordings (usually mixed through multiple microphones where the absolute phase of microphones or equipment haven't been coordinated) are indeterminant, often with individual intstruments varying or the results varying from track to track depending on when and where they were recorded.

Once you get used to what the the differences are:
1. You will fairly easily be able to tell the correct setting for 60% of  recordings
2. For the other 40% you might well have a "preference" based on your listening senstivities. For example you might hate edgy violins or splashy cymbals or over sibilant singers so you will set absolute phase for the most smooth/pleasant high frequency result for you. Trouble is that might put other instruments in the mix out of absolute phase. It is a compromise. But you will still have a preference for half of these 40% of titles. The remainder it won't matter.

Nevertheless this is well worth doing as the difference between correct and not correct is quite noticeable on well recorded material - at least to these senstive ears. For those who want to know what to listen for, when considering "absolute phase/polarity" or "the Wood Effect" or the "muffling distortion" (not to be confused with AC polarity):

1. The sound is more dynamic in both a micro and macro sense.
2. More detail and separation of instruments and vocalists
3. Increased soundstage width and depth with vocalist often coming forward in the mix - greater separation from backing players.
4. Cleaner higher frequencies with less sibilance on voices, and edge on violins and cymbals. Somewhat like a "distortion" being removed.
5. The soundstage retains better centering of instruments and singers when the listener moves off the central listening axis. The images don't follow you so easily to the nearest speaker.
6. Fuller, more powerful, punchier, and cleaner bass.
7. A greater sense of "rightness" with a more homogenous soundstage and performance. You can more easily relax into the music knowing it sounds more real.

Many people will not be senstive to this simple and well known muffling distortion. Often people are, but blame it on their gear or the last piece inserted into their music chain, not realsing that the new unit reverses absolute phase in their system and therefore they identify the "wood effect" rather than the true merit of the unit under test. Some reviewers don't take any care in this regard at all.

I can remember many years ago doing a little test with some audio club members who brought along their very "best sounding" records. Almost without fail each individual's best sounding records all had the same absolute polarity.

There is a rider to easily recognising this "distortion" - preferrably you would have fairly phase coherent loudspeakers, which is not always possible with multiway dynamic speakers where in many cases the drivers are connected out of absolute phase with each other, and this shows on impulse/step response.

I mark all my records/CDs to show my absolute polarity preference, so being able to flag this with each wav file in XXHighEnd would be an "absolute godsend" Peter.

Cheers
Frank

[SeVeReD]

Nice thoughts.  I sure wish I could listen and play tonight with the new 9i, but it's 1:30 and I'm burnt.  I know what you mean about phase messing things up and how even on a few albums each song can be a different phase... sigh, as long as the code/tags for what you're asking don't mess up the sound hehe... sometimes I think I breathe wrong on a cable and the sound changes heh.  Some things defy logic... or just aren't figured out yet.  But I sure am looking forward to this player with phase control.. manual or otherwise.

[Gerner]

I could not have expressed that better Frank. 

Maybe Peter can make a flag function, but it could maybe also be done in the music folder as well as we get the CD cover pic dragged over into the XX display?

Gerner

[PeterSt]

Hi Frank,

As you might have read in between the lines the reason why it's in there now, it quite different.
It was the perceived phase shift occurring in 0.9h opposed to earlier versions, so when that would be true you'd need the reversing for that as a base (and the 60% recordings with proper polarity would be correct again). Do not forget : this would be so with the Q1 slider at 24.

I had it ready for a month or so, originating from detecting correct absolute phase. Although I've developed an algorithm that might suffice, I still think it can't work, just because of the sole reason of instruments being mixed for polarity, as you told. And, in the end it comes to a preference which varies per track; The drums might be in correct phase after adjusting, but the voice might not, and the latter might be the most disturbing. You said that too. So ...

It is actually of no use to allow the changing of the polarity for two reasons :
1. Currently it can't work real time, which would be VERY convenient in checking was the best setting would be for "you";
2. Whatever trouble you took to find it out, you'd have to apply it yourself the next time because it isn't remembered.

So there you go. You said it all.
But again, the reason why it's in now is very different, and I propose to use it as one definite setting only, depending on what the Q1 slider does to it.
Ultimately it will be remembered, like many more things can be remembered. Take the example of the sax in the latest sample I uploaded ( http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=160.0 ) and it really doesn't matter much what the setting to make this bearable destroys on other aspects, if only this sax stops resonating. So that would be the Q1 setting to be remembered ...

Remembering these things for 100% sure will be in there, but there's a few other priorities to deal with first.
And you can bet that Q1 is called so because there will be a Q2 ...

Peter

[SeVeReD]

Man I am chomping at the bit to try this. (means I really want to try it!!!).  Just finally downloaded .9i and not reading much here until I give it a listen.  With people over and time with my daughter doing other things I may not get to listen to it except for background.  Plus, I knew there was a reason I didn't want home theatre in the music room ... arrggg everyone is going gaga over a new projector I picked up (took me forever to install, sigh) and I couldn't care less.  At least the screen rolls up out of the way... maybe late tonight, but for sure tomorrow I will spend time listening all evening and over the next few days it will all be about music.  Just letting you know how much I appreciate your efforts.  I read the release notes and am really excited.  I've always known that all recordings are not equal and that a recording that sounds fabulous on one system may not sound good on another... but I don't want tone controls... I may not know what I want, but I do know I want accuracy... and maybe phase controls... is that it???