Gainclone heaven ?

[Nick]

I would be surprised  if Gainclones could compete

You mean before they explode, right ?

it would be a David and Goliath level performance if by some chance they can compete.

[manisandher]

If Gain Clone's can be bridged multiple times then I can help (using BD30 amp boards). I stll have enough BG's N types laying around to stick into a few boards...

Hi Bert, this would be great and I may well take you up on it. I'll PM you...

Mani.

[manisandher]

As I say try to get Paul's amp into your system, or mine if you want to try unbridged. I am sure you'll know in moments if there is potential.

Nick, I'd love to try either your or Paul's gainclones with my Quads. If I don't end up with a Soulution, DartZeel or bridged-BD30 amp in the near future, I might take you up on it. And of course, it'd give you a chance to take a listen to the two modern-day Quad offerings...

Mani.

[PeterSt]

I would be surprised  if Gainclones could compete

You mean before they explode, right ?

it would be a David and Goliath level performance if by some chance they can compete.

I would be surprised  if Gainclones could compete

HEY ! That is not what I (nor you) said !
manipulator ...

[Scroobius]

Hey Mani,

I think I mentioned when I came to see you that I used to have a pair of ESL's. What I did not tell you that I drove them with a DNM amplifier. It was a mighty fine pairing the best sound I could find at the time (many years ago). Dennis Morecroft the designer and builder of the DNM used to run a pair of ESL himself so it had to be a good pairing. But the amp was only a 12 watt standard class A/B transistor and when not driving ESL needed efficient speakers.  The Gainclones are in a totally different league to that old DNM so it could well be worth trying the GC on your Quads before you spend any money.
All the best
Paul

[Scroobius]

Hi Anyone who its interested,

Nearly there, I hope to get my bi amp GainClones up and running in the next week or so but I have to say I totally underestimated the amount of work required (will post as soon as I get them up and running). At the end of the day its not difficult (the electronics are of course very very simple) rather its the hardware layout case work wiring and all that stuff - it takes much much more time than I ever planned for.

However, because my GC is out of action I am again (at least for a short time) listening to my (high spec) SET's. Well they sound SO SO much better with my home made cheap (very cheap) speaker wire - basically the wire that GerardA recommended above. The improvement in sound quality is huge - but wait a minute ...... I was only looking for speaker cable to bi amp my GC's to be at least as good as my previous cable. I was not expecting home made cable to sound so brilliant. So this is a big improvement before I even get to the bi amp GC's. I have also to say this is really important when listening to NOS1 - I can really hear what it can do. Mmmmm but it costs peanuts !!!! but I have to say its a lot of hard work to twist into the final product.

I guess that in this whole exercise it was bi amping my gainclones that was the main point. I was simply looking for speaker cable (at very low cost) to allow me to do it. What I was NOT expecting was that the el cheapo speaker cable (see above posts) would provide such a big improvement. I will never trust a hi-fi magazine, a hi-fi review or a hi-fi dealer again.

Scroob's

[PeterSt]

Wow ... It really seems that we all can learn something here. I mean, how can it be a coincidence that so many (and a few really is enough !) come to the same conclusion ?!?

Really great ...
Peter

[Nick]

I would be surprised  if Gainclones could compete

You mean before they explode, right ?

it would be a David and Goliath level performance if by some chance they can compete.

I would be surprised  if Gainclones could compete

HEY ! That is not what I (nor you) said !
manipulator ...

Sorry should have stated the edit. I was trying to sort out my bad grammer.  Complete does read differently to compete which is what I had intended. 

[PeterSt]

How is your french these days Nick ?!

haha

Avez vous une pain s'il vous plait ?
That's all I know, and it still will be wrong.
But all so important in France. Don't forget to get yourself a nice paté !

[GerardA]

@ Scroobius:
Glad you enjoy these cables too!
It's a pain in the ass to build them, but it is worth it!
Maybe we have to try this for interconnects and inside speakers and amps too...
Other cheap tricks that work: The lightweight stuff that women use to scrub their feet.
Make three blocks and put it under speakers amps etc..
Specially the record player if you got one. And in that case a record mat of Origin live.
But for XXHE-tricks we have to wait for Peter and now for Mani too....

[Nick]

Paul,

I know what you mean about the time spent fixing fitting and wiring. The modules are together in a couple of hours and then days of case work etc. Should be worth it though

Have you gone for one module per driver or are you building bridged ? I have a feeling that for our situation with multiple drivers per channel, one gainclone per driver may work the best.

Looking forward to hearing how the amp sounds.

Regards.

Nick.

[Nick]

How is your french these days Nick ?!

haha

Avez vous une pain s'il vous plait ?
That's all I know, and it still will be wrong.
But all so important in France. Don't forget to get yourself a nice paté !

My French is not great, but I can get by ordering food and drink so the priorities are covered.

You'v got me thinking about a nice canard pate. I broke 22 years of being vegetarian recently, so there is a world of interesting food to try while were here 

Nick

[PeterSt]

LOL!

[Scroobius]

Hi All,

Est Arrivee !! (the bi amp GC's that is) and I have to say that is the only French you will get out of me tonight.

Anyway after  a busy soldering day at last the bi amped GC's were up and running this afternoon - it has been a very great deal of effort to build these I have to say but everything worked first time  . And was it worth it? well read on ...................

So what do they sound like?   Well immediately the difference is obvious - there is a lot more detail - cymbals and brush work on cymbals just sound superb lots of tiny detail that I just did not hear before. The sound is easier more relaxed. Peter has often described how cymbals sound with NOS1 and they always sounded good but now they are really special. But it is everything that is improved sounding more controlled, easier, more stage depth less hash much closer to the live experience..... BUT I have to say that without the new El Cheapo speaker cable I most certainly would not be hearing this degree of improvement.

AND two of the amps are brand new and not run in yet - the 4 PS capacitors will surely improve with running in over the next week or so.

So with a superlative level of performance now from my system that I just was never expecting I have some important thank you's :-

Nick - A MASSIVE THANK YOU for starting this thread because as a result my system is hugely improved. And what have I done? replaced expensive (very expensive) amplifiers and speaker cable with Cheap Cheap home made stuff. WOW I wish I had known all of this before I could have saved so much money.

Gerard - thanks so much for your help with the speaker cables - Wow what a huge improvement they are. What a big lesson for me - for a few pounds and a lot of work something really really special. I spent two full days winding these cables with the help of my wife (he he) and I have to say you need to be well organised and patient to wind 2 x 6 meters of 8 strand and 2 x 6metres of 16 strand then wind the whole lot together - pictures tomorrow will be posted. Mmmm - great fun I had it festooned all around the garden - the neighbours wondered what the heck I was doing.

Juan - it was your recommendation to look at anti cables that started me off with cheap single core speaker cable that blew away my existing expensive cable and then led on with Gerards help to use multistrand varnished cable which was another big improvement. Also I will be reworking my IC's to be like the anticable IC's except in silver. Check out the picture of my GC's when I post them tomorrow for the signal input cables to the GC boards that idea came from anticable IC's thanks again Juan.

BUT MOST OF ALL - A MASSIVE THANK YOU to PETER. The improvements detailed above now allow me to hear what NOS1 can really do and it is truly brilliant. I never thought that this level of sound quality was possible at all let alone actually be able to listen to it in my own house. Wow just superb. Thank you Peter for this Forum because without it I would not have the fantastic NOS1 based system I have now (and here is the best bit) I would not have sold my old HI FI AND MADE A PROFIT. So I am more than a couple of thousand (£) better off and I have a truly brilliant exceptional sounding system.

So the big lesson for me is that the less I spend on hi-fi the better it gets (and oh boy does it get better!!!) - HA HA HA HA - all those hi fi suppliers, manufacturers and reviewers out there what do they really know about high quality music reproduction? - in most cases not very much methinks. How many have applied the intellectual rigour and radical approaches that Peter has applied? - well I don't know of any.

Just a final note on the GC's. They are simply superb besting my expensive SET by a long long way (and my SET's were the best amps I had heard until now). There may be better amp's than GC's out there but oh boy are you going to have to pay a lot of money for them. But then it gets better - for peanuts you can bi amp GC's for another big big improvement. So where does that leave expensive amps and expensive speaker cables? well you would have to spend insane amounts of money to bi amp those. The only sensible comparison in my view is a really expensive amp and speaker cable versus bi amped GC's with home made speaker cable. I wonder how much you would have to spend to best a bi amped GC - eye watering amounts of money I should think. I have not tried the Class D amps recommended elsewhere on this forum but maybe I will sometime.

Also I have just parallel my GC's at this time. I have not yet tried them in the configuration that Peter recommended where one GC acts as a pre amp for a second GC feeding the base unit. It just sounds so good now that I will wait a while before I try that (I will try it though so sure - watch this space).

Anyway - for all those I have offered thanks to above there are some free drink vouchers waiting here and if you would like to collect them PM me.

Mani - looks like all the criteria are filled for you visit to Marlow!!!! just wondering if you should bring your stats with you - well maybe that would be a bit too much but I can still bring my GC's up to yours at some time if you want.

A BIG BIG thanks again to everyone who helped me

Scroob's (aka Paul)

[juanpmar]

Hi Paul,

You´re very welcome and congratulations for your cables and Gainclone amps. I´m eager to see the final pictures.

Juan