What is the best USB S/PDIF converter

[Bernie]

the Off Ramp 4 seems to be new, it was not available when I checked their site some weeks ago... but 2400$ with 2 Ultraclocks to support all frequencies is another pricerange than the Audiophilleo...

[juanpmar]

Could someone tell me if the Audiophilleo2 ($495) is worthwhile over the Audiophilleo1  ($895)?

[Bernie]

I think the sound quality is the same, so if you don't need the additional features you can go with the AP2 I guess...

[PeterSt]

In the mean time ...

(if this is appreciated as commercial talk, so be it. But it is well meant anyway)

Whether you guys think about spending 200, 500, 1200 or 2400 dollars or euros ... what you're actually thinking about is the upgrade of an interface. I know, for some this is the hope for better sound, and for others it's about the sheer possibility to connect an existing DAC in the first place. The latter ? may be a good reason. The former ? also, but only for the price of 200 IMO. I mean, if you'd only know what a waste that 500 already will be compared to some slight improvement on sound which will be (and stay) so wrong anyway ...

Yes, I said "wrong", and I mean that.

Even when you are supposed to spend "only" 1200 on a well designed interface and only to keep on using your DAC which wouldn't connect otherwise, that DAC too will be "wrong" to my own standards.

As said, I mean well. It is just that my eye fell on the current DAC of juanpmar within a same topic where Arvind responds genuinely - and where I recall he just had a (very similar) device which he open heartedly recommends to others and where he also could try to sell his own old one, and this combined with him having the same (or similar) DAC as juanpmar has - which really should be "had" on Arvind's side because he replaced it with ... well, see his signature.

So yes, that is more money again, but wouldn't it be better to save some (longer) instead of spending 1/3 of it already and be not satisfied in the long term ?

I can't be 100% sure yet that the DAC Arvind now owns will be world's best. But, it was meant to be, it should be, and no signals against that yet (but it's also too soon to well judge really).
Just try to keep this in mind; it was made for you (and not for me).

Sorry if this all sounded somewhat strange.
Peter

[Bernie]

Hi Peter,
you are absolutely right, I would never spend much more than the 400€ for the Audiophilleo, otherwise I would buy your DAC. But I'm using a TACT Millenium digital amplifier so I can't use an external DAC. All I change is the digital output of my PC...

[digitalman]

Hi Peter,

How can you be so sure about the quality of your dac and call other dac's doing so wrong? I have bought the Lampizator DAC new version 3 and Lukasz also tells that his dac out preform (almost) every dac in the world. But i know that a lot of manufactures also call there products the best (for marketing reasons or they really think that there products are sounding the best). And then you have buyers of a product which are so happy with the new sound and give a good review. But how can you objectivaly measure the music quality of a product when every person have a subjective opinion about what he defines as the ultimate musical sensation. And then you have the different  audio hardware, (tube) amps, cd player, cables, speakers etc. which all should sound different with a specific dac.

Sorry if i sound sceptical it's not really ment that way ;-) and don't see it as a that i defending the Lampizator dac because all the above is also true for his dac's.

Maybe you can explain what makes you think that your dac is really one of the best?

[digitalman]

I want to add to my last writing that is really not ment as negative about the NOS Phasure DAC or Peters hard work to develop, i'am sure, such a fantastic sounding dac. Only thing is that i'am not sure that his  develop philisophy can only lead to the best sounding dac. I think there are more ways to Rome ;-) BUt i'am really curious about the quality of Peters DAC. So i hope there will be a time that i can compare or only listen to the Phasure DAC.

So Peter keep up the good work with xxhighend and your Phasure DAC!

Greetz,
Martijn

[jkeny]

.......
The hiface has a 50Ohm bnc plug, (Did Jkeny said that? don't know?) and probable a bad impedance control. I guess this is the reason why you get better results from a long cable. The reflections arrive later. The attenuation of a cable is not enough to explain the better sound. But it should improve with an attenuator about 10-20 db, according to Jkeny and also others who affirmed that.

No, Flecko, I didn't say that - it came from the Head-fi/audio-gd crowd when they were trialling their Digital Interface against the Hiface - unfounded assertion, btw. Have a look at the ComputerAudiophile review of the Hiface - impedance comes out at 73ohm.  Last we spoke you were buying an RF attenuator to try on your Hiface - didn't happen?

Digitalman, here's what I suggest, I offer a money back home trial of the MK2 Hiface, no questions asked, so, if you want to compare it against another device, it's available.

BTW, Keng from the Netherlands (a member here, I believe but I don't know his handle), might like to pitch in as he recently acquired a MK2?

[PeterSt]

Haha, Martijn, of course you are right. And maybe I shouldn't have posted such a "message" at all; it just reminded me of saying somewhere else that I never had said such a thing as "you should really ..." ... and now I did.

But still ...

I am quite (100%) sure I am right.
What is absolutely wrong though is that I'd be saying that "your" DAC is wrong. And this is not only about you or your ideas/feelings about it, but also about no matter what manufacturer which I respect very well, especially when it is about our polish friend (and quite some more in this area). So ...

But still ...

You may look at each manufacturer's writings - but you should come to the conclusion that it's all commercial talk of which you (or I) wouldn't understand to real merits in the first place. I will name one exception : Dan Lavry. And btw, if you can name one who rather explicitly like he did explains why we should do "this and that", I'll be happy not to forget him/that the next time. But the little problem is :
I am 100% against exactly such explanations of how things should be approached, listened to, or bought. And mind you, DL just wrote his "white paper" in a very general fashion, so it's not even to be seen as a commercial story. But maybe that's why I name exactly him as a single good example.
But I am still 100% against that, and explained how or why in maybe a 1000 posts by now. I wouldn't call them white papers, but they sure would suffice. And oh, those posts are foremost not in here, but throughout time you will be able to find some 100 in here anyway.

Well, if you have read a few of those there is nothing much to add, and if you didn't, what to say in a few lines; That the NOS1 is different for about all aspects won't tell you much of the merits, although the *why* may make you wonder. But let's try to summarize it with this :

Suppose (and for you maybe, just suppose indeed) that all those "NOS" (non oversampling) lovers are right that their (1541 etc. based DACs) are indeed more "musical". That they just sound better. That the OS modern people just don't know what they miss. And also : that OS die hards only can point out that NOS s*cks all over because of poor measuering figures. They wouldn't know because they refuse to listen, but their only counterweight is that NOS lovers must like distortion - and which is what it would come down to, scientifically speaking, not knowing the whole story. Now :

It is this "whole story" I am always talking about including the explanation why it is a completely wrong story;
It is from this where some real story sprung, and how I created "NOS" with good figures for the first time, at the same time telling why OS figures are as fake as you can think of. It is this why not only the NOS1 should theoretically be the best there is, but also why it sounds not better by some marging of which one would say "hmm.. maybe I like it", but of which people immediately say "djeez, how can this be possible". At least I didn't meet anyone not saying this, and it includes NOS lovers in the first place, them being used to NOS, but also to the most heavy distortion indeed.

The above is only the commercial story if you don't know about these 1000 other posts. If you do, you wouldn't question it, BUT, always had to listen first; you might believe in my explanations allright, but, for example, if you'd believe in the DL stories in the first place, you would sure want to check it out. So, the both "explanations" how digital audio should work are plainly me against the whole world of others. I will never deny that, until I'm not alone anymore. But at least it is totally different, *plus* (and let this be important) I have been able to 100% explain why NOS lovers could ever be right in their judgement, while it seems so wrong regarding measurement figures. It intrigued me, I bought an NOS (18 bit) DAC for the purpose (traded that for a well expensive Audio Note), agreed with the sound everybody was raving about, and next set myself to explaining it. I did.
Who's next ?

Let me finish this by once again telling that this doesn't mean I disrespect enthusiasts like the person behind Lampizator. As a matter of fact I received quite some emails and PM's right about him, and what my opinion was. Coincidence ? no way. Why ? well, because he's en enthusiast exactly like me as it seems. And so I responded to those emails (people concerned will know). But there *is* a difference, because I have well thought of - and extensively explained theories, while others have none at all. So, I too use the very best parts I can find, but it really is not all there's to it. It matters (a LOT), but it's the last part of the process. The design philosophy comes first, and for that matter - what I am saying I'm stating for years and in the end it's a long strategy which included everything and all. Maybe I can refer to Arc Prediction Filtering only, to refer to a phenomenon which comes across to you as something nice and which may do good even to your DAC. But it really was a necessary "technnique" to let the NOS1 do what it is supposed to do and which I knew from the start not knowing a bloody thing about filtering at all. I did it because it had to work, and it is only one small part of the whole philosophy. In the end the whole of XXHighEnd can be included. Think about that, now you know it anyway.
A monster of a project really, but a real project, and not a commercial story only. The latter would have been cheaper ... a lot.

I will stop here, and I hope you can dig up the remainder somewhere. But remember one thing please : my post maybe was inappropriate - even on my own forum. But really, if people are going to talk about 2400 whatever money, I just like to express that maybe that is not the right thing to do. Maybe I say this because I feel it as a waste of my time. Sounds strange (again), I know. But if I had done this for myself I would have been finished long ago or the NOS1 would have been at least double its price. Or even tenfold. But then I would have welded to cover to the chassis, because otherwise the shown costs of the parts really would not have justified for that.

Peter

[PeterSt]

BTW, Keng from the Netherlands (a member here, I believe but I don't know his handle) [...]

Hi John,

I noticed the other day that you somehow seem to be keen on shouting rather outloud people's private names, or all the further nick names they use otherwise; I only want to say : as you know I don't care much about some support for your own enthusiasm and then in the context of my own last post. But please let people decide on their own under what names they make themselves known or otherwise stick to their "handle". No big deal really, but again, people ought to decide that for themselves.
Thank you.

That the same "Keng" apparently will be one of the few that may express his ideas about the subject from my two posts in this topic, is a complete other matter - and a funny coincidence. I'll leave it up to him how he judges, and whether some, say, 200 euros can be justified against that other much larger amount. Pure coincience I'll say, and in the end we just posted along eachother.
But remember what I said in the first place : to me that 200 or whatever euro *is* justified. Regardless.

Regards,
Peter

[jkeny]

BTW, Keng from the Netherlands (a member here, I believe but I don't know his handle) [...]

Hi John,

I noticed the other day that you somehow seem to be keen on shouting rather outloud people's private names, or all the further nick names they use otherwise; I only want to say : as you know I don't care much about some support for your own enthusiasm and then in the context of my own last post. But please let people decide on their own under what names they make themselves known or otherwise stick to their "handle". No big deal really, but again, people ought to decide that for themselves.
Thank you.

Am I keen on doing that? Never noticed - can you show me where I've done so before?

That the same "Keng" apparently will be one of the few that may express his ideas about the subject from my two posts in this topic, is a complete other matter - and a funny coincidence. I'll leave it up to him how he judges, and whether some, say, 200 euros can be justified against that other much larger amount. Pure coincience I'll say, and in the end we just posted along eachother.
But remember what I said in the first place : to me that 200 or whatever euro *is* justified. Regardless.

Regards,
Peter

OK?

[PeterSt]

Haha, as I said, not really a big deal.
Ar-t.

[Flecko]

No, Flecko, I didn't say that - it came from the Head-fi/audio-gd crowd when they were trialling their Digital Interface against the Hiface - unfounded assertion, btw. Have a look at the ComputerAudiophile review of the Hiface - impedance comes out at 73ohm.  Last we spoke you were buying an RF attenuator to try on your Hiface - didn't happen?

Sorry. Mixed up something...and I know now what...! Kingwa has found the bnc connector he was first using in his DI was a 50Ohm, although it was sold as a 75Ohm. He has replaced it by a true 75ohm connector.
I tried to get the attenuator but I don't have it yet. Shipping from america was to expensive and the german distributor didn't respond to my question about the attenuator. I will go to the local electric shop and order some attenuators there. But at the moment I don't find the time. Meanwhile I replaced my Hiface by a Digital Interface from Audio-GD. The attenuator maybe helps there too. Also I still have the hiface and can test it. I will report as I have done the test.

[jkeny]

Haha, as I said, not really a big deal.
Ar-t.

Ah, I see, but I only do it with that particular person

[jkeny]

No, Flecko, I didn't say that - it came from the Head-fi/audio-gd crowd when they were trialling their Digital Interface against the Hiface - unfounded assertion, btw. Have a look at the ComputerAudiophile review of the Hiface - impedance comes out at 73ohm.  Last we spoke you were buying an RF attenuator to try on your Hiface - didn't happen?

Sorry. Mixed up something...and I know now what...! Kingwa has found the bnc connector he was first using in his DI was a 50Ohm, although it was sold as a 75Ohm. He has replaced it by a true 75ohm connector.

Yes, but I also saw that rumour spread from that thread i.e that the Hiface doesn't have a 75 ohm BNC connector. It seems head-fi has a tendency for doing that

I tried to get the attenuator but I don't have it yet. Shipping from america was to expensive and the german distributor didn't respond to my question about the attenuator. I will go to the local electric shop and order some attenuators there. But at the moment I don't find the time. Meanwhile I replaced my Hiface by a Digital Interface from Audio-GD. The attenuator maybe helps there too. Also I still have the hiface and can test it. I will report as I have done the test.

There are other minicircuit distributors in Europe. Be careful what RF attenuator you use - they are not all the same - check the datasheets. Yes, it works on & helps the Digital Interface too