Vista SP2 General Impressions and Performance

[jnoneiliv1]

I recently upgraded my work PC from XP SP3 to Vista SP2, and I wanted to share some of my general experience and ask for a bit of help.  I will probably always be something of a "beginner" using XX since I do not have the experience or equipment to "hear" SQ differences, but I want to do the best I can with the limited time and resources available to me and I believe XX is much smarter than I am.  I don't think my experiences will be much help to the more experienced people here, but maybe I can represent one "beginner" experience.

I decided to upgrade my XP PC at work to install the latest XXHighEnd.  I have avoided Vista like the plague and I have liked XP for many years now.  Despite the audio problems I think XP is a very good OS.  But, I cannot upgrade to Win7 without re-installing all of my software and the XX community recommends Vista for the best SQ.

I used Vista Ultimate 32 bit (Red) version for the upgrade and for most of my software upgraded in place just fine.  I installed XX, which was very easy, and I was able to play music right away without any problems.

I do not use anti-virus software, but I automatically install ALL critical updates from MSoft to keep my machines "plugged" for virus holes, so I have SP2 for Vista.  Of course this took a long time to download and install all the patches.  I also installed all the latest drivers from Dell.

So, everything is okay except now my PC is really acting badly.  Halting, hanging, etc.  Even Excel and Word run poorly.

I am thinking that all of the same Vista Tweaks posted elsewhere in this forum will also be very good for eliminating Vista performance problems.  Peter has provided at least two threads with step by step instructions and some others have provided batch files I can use.

I know that a work PC is a very bad place for high end audio, but I believe that Peter's XXHighEnd will certainly run much better on my busy PC than a player which does not manage resources as well.  And, I control the PC completely and I don't see why I can't work on a spreadsheet and listen to music at the same time.

Since Vista was abandoned by MSoft, I might consider upgrading to Win7, but I know it is not the best for SQ.  Although I want to follow the best advice for SQ, I might be happy with Win7 and KS under XXHighEnd.  Knowing that I'm not using the best equipment or experience, would anyone be willing to offer some advice about using XXHighEnd with Win 7, or should I stay with Vista and fix performance by using the "Tweaks"?  (I really think this Vista OS is cr*p the way it performs, but I'm willing to work with it to give XX the best environment.)

I know that XXHighEnd is about the absolute best sound, and my question may not help anyone, but it would be nice to have a PC that works for other things AND can get "good" sound from XX, if not the "best" sound.

I understand if my "lazy" approach is not a good experiment for experienced audiophiles, but I think XX could be a good solution for a lot of other beginners.  One day I expect to be able to "hear" the difference, but for now I need to start somewhere and I want to use XX on my PC's using the best advice until I can hear for myself.

Cheers,

Jamie

[PeterSt]

Hi there Jamie.

Allow me to first compliment you with such an open an honest post. Really great.

At this moment, at least I am not able to help you much, other than saying that Vista is really more "light weight" than W7. For audio it for sure is. Otherwise I have been using W7 for over an half year, and actually Vista wasn't all that bad, now being reverted to that. I must say though that at first (a few years back) it felt like being quirky. But I guess it is quite okay as long as you used W7 first.

Your "problem" will be the Notebook together with XXHighEnd which by itself is not light weight at all. Oh, it is once playing, but all what preceeds that really is not (because of XX being a genuine memory player and all what comes along with that). So, all it needs is to watch the disk light to see what I mean. Even when music plays, that light is on and on and on for ages after playback started, while in any "normal" situation it should be off and stay off throughout a track (a bit depending on a few things, but still).
I won't say it is the Dell in particular (but watch out), and it's just the "notebook thing". They are sloooww, nevermind the speed of the processor. Besides, they usually are overloaded with stuff you won't need, but usualy can't get rid of anyway. And if you do, they stop working. Well, for a normal human being it's a real undoable task to get them right - *if* you don't have clicks and plops in the first place (quite Dell prone that is).

So, is this of any real help ? no, I guess not. But maybe it is good to know that you will be a kind of stuck with the situation.
Your best bet (I think) will be an SFS (Slit File Size) as low as possible. All will respond better then. Also, 0.9z-4 will contribute quite a bit to a better experience. But never (NEVER) it will be on par with a normal machine. Just think like loading a complete FLAC album in 3-4 seconds and compare it with your situation. Could be minutes just as well ...

In any case it is good to perceive from you what happens in your situation and which won't be much different for others in a similar situation. By now - in here - not many people will be using laptops anymore, but *if* some are there who can tell you what is best for that, I sure hope they will anounce themselves and help out.
In any case, SQ too is worse from laptops. Not because they are poor in "reproducing" or anything, but because headroom matters. Hard to understand and impossible to (really) explain, but it just is so.
It seems so convenient, but in the end it just is not ...

Ok, I hope this helped you a bit anyway; Might you have particular questions or issues (could be clicks, anything), don't hesitate to mention them and we can always try to solved it against all odds. I don't think I know of a case something couldn't be solved; it's just harder. Unless you will be using W7. Then things may be near to impossible to solve (sometimes).

All the best for now,
Peter

[jnoneiliv1]

Peter,

Thanks a lot, your feedback is really helpful.

It is good to know that Win7 isn't the "solution" for general computing, and that you think Vista can be fixed, and that Vista has an efficient core processing engine.

My Dell is actually a Mini Tower, but still not the best machine.  It is relatively new and has a dual core processor, 2 gig ram, and probably a modern PCI bus, etc. but I recently noticed the NIC is only 100MB and I am using a NAS.

In any case, your general impressions of Vista and Win7 are a big help to me as I will go to work getting Vista to behave using all the good technical post about Vista Tweaks.  I will also pay attention to SFS.

I know you are seeing the OS from the inside out, and that is most important to learn about.  I can do work on the PC, like using Word or Excel, with everything else shutdown, and unless I am saving my documents, I think that I can certainly work with XX taking most of the memory and IO.  I wouldn't try to use Photoshop at the same time.

Again, thanks so much for the feedback, I know you must be very busy and very excited about the first shipments of the Phasure NOS.  I am fascinated by your development of a coherent theory of audio signal reproduction.  I was always curious how real sound energy could be reproduced with samples taken at just twice the frequency (20k to 44k) and reproduced assuming a sine wave shape for everything with Fourier math.  Your investigation into square wave signal reproduction, transients, etc. and how this flows through the entire signal chain is very interesting.  I expect your work with the NOS will provide some insights into line stage and drive stage amplification as well.  I don't understand everything, but I am enjoying being a spectator of these experiments and theoretical development and I think I might learn how to get some really good sound without a lot of money by understanding how things work.

Cheers,

Jamie

[Flecko]

(I really think this Vista OS is cr*p the way it performs, but I'm willing to work with it to give XX the best environment.)

I had some listening experiments with W7 and Vista. I am using W7 since a year. Now using Vista for the experiment again, it feels like turning my core2duo into a pentium. I think there is no problem using W7 with the current release of xx.

[crisnee]

(I really think this Vista OS is cr*p the way it performs, but I'm willing to work with it to give XX the best environment.)

I had some listening experiments with W7 and Vista. I am using W7 since a year. Now using Vista for the experiment again, it feels like turning my core2duo into a pentium. I think there is no problem using W7 with the current release of xx.

Hi Jamie

I agree with Flecko for the most part. Some people say they hear differences between Vista and W7, but from the way you're describing your audio system, I think those differences would not pertain to you, because they are surely relatively minor if they exist at all. You'll notice (and maybe you already have) that for many "audiophiles," monumental sound improvements happen every other month or every $1k spent. (However, you might want to let us know what you are using for a music system so we don't to jump to false conclusions.)

If you already own W7, you could install it along side of Vista. If you don't feel you have enough space for both, and you know that W7 runs well on your Dell or you just think it will, I'd install it. I don't think you'll lose anything sound-wise. Then, if at some point you decide you really want to delve into this pc sound morass, (and that's what it is now, although maybe when you're ready it no longer will be), you'll be spending so much time on it that re-installing Vista will be like a mini vacation to Hawaii.

Chris

[stoni]

Dear jnoneiliv1!
I'm in the same situation as you regarding the need for having a laptop/notebook to do other things than just listening to music. In my home, I've no other place for my music equipment that in the living room, it's therefore a continuously struggle with the rest of the family to keep it somehow nice looking, integrated, compact AND at the same time having a good sounding gear, a great challenge!

The good news is that this is possible, and my Dell laptop is doing very well with XXHighend. My sollution is to have the OS' on different partitions. W7 for multimedia setup, internett for the kids, etc, while W2008SP1 and W2008R2 are only for XXhighend, and nothing else! From my signature, you can see how XXHighend is running on this laptop, and the sound is astonishing!

But, you can also see from my signature that W2008SP1 (which is indeed is a light Vista) and W2008R2 (similar as W7) act differently, and I can tell you, sound differently! W2008SP1 can reach much better settings, especially with the SFS, than the W2008R2. W2008SP1 sounds extremely good! It might be that W2008R2 with the future SP1 upgrade will do the same (waiting for the official SP1 to be available the 22.th of February, I won't spend time on the SP1 RC), but today W2008SP1 is far superior in my set-up. For difference in sound, you’ll find a lot of comments in the forum.
One solution for you could be to do your upgrade to W7. But, if you are allowed to do so and have the space on your HD, make another partition (you will need min 25GB free space - look into other treads on how to do this). Install your Vista and XXhighend, boot to Vista when you listen to music, other ways use W7. This is based on my findings that XXhighend stresses the PC more running on W2008R2 than using W2008SP1. Feel free to PM me!

(Sorry, when rereading your posts, I see that you indeed use a desktop, anyway, the same is valid for the OS'!)

[PeterSt]

Thank you for sharing stoni.