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Author Topic: XX+music in ramdisk - the winner!  (Read 35272 times)
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ivo
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« on: October 13, 2010, 10:29:09 pm »

Hi all,

So, I am still on W7 and decided to try out some tests with file location. See the picture.
The winner mode is when XX and music are both  in ramdisk. However, USB flash is also not that bad for music holding.
The way I do is I copy the album into ramdisk manually before playback. I usually listen to one particular music not many different.

When xx and music are in ramdisk, e.g., RAM - this is something different coming out of my system. Extra smooth and detailed. I love it. Thanks Peter and thanks the one who came up with ramdisk idea.

Ivo


* ramdisk_tests.bmp (675.26 KB, 960x720 - viewed 1801 times.)
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Music on internal HDD in FLAC-->LatestXX in QAP + PeakExt Mode[KS,Adaptive,2048,Q1=14,xQ1=1,Sch3,Low,Realtime,15 ms, SFS 2-400, Straight, stop all, MinOS]-->Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64bit-->Intel i5 based laptop [8 GB RAM]-->JKDAC32(HiFace based USB-I2S-DAC)-->Denon PMA-1500AE-->JBL E90 3-way speakers
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 10:45:34 pm »

Wow Ivo, Great !

Did you incorporate Copy to XX Drive explicitly in your tests ?
Notice that this will only play a role with native .WAV files; Otherwise it goes to the "XX Drive" anyway (as the result from conversions).
IOW, do you think it differs if you copy "yourself" to the XX Drive ? Also if it's FLAC (all but .WAV) you are copying to there ?

Really great and sincere thanks.
Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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manisandher
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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 11:40:07 pm »

If 'Copy to XX-drive' is selected, then surely there is absolutely no point in copying the music files manually to RAM. This is exactly what 'Copy to XX-drive' will do... if XX sits in RAM.

Am I missing something?

Mani.
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 12:36:01 am »

I play only FLACs. All tests done with FLACs. "Copy to XX..." is selected.

Yes, of course XX takes files and converts in its own folder before playback which is actually the same RAM where XX resides.
My idea was to eliminate as much as possible music travel across PC before playback. All is in RAM and there it stays - that is my rule.
And I feel difference when music is in RAM vs being on HDD.

I guess most of us feel better sound when using SSDs - the drive with no spinning stuff. USB flash and RAM are of the same sort as SSD.

Maybe I am missing also something here, but I hear what I hear.

Ivo
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Music on internal HDD in FLAC-->LatestXX in QAP + PeakExt Mode[KS,Adaptive,2048,Q1=14,xQ1=1,Sch3,Low,Realtime,15 ms, SFS 2-400, Straight, stop all, MinOS]-->Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64bit-->Intel i5 based laptop [8 GB RAM]-->JKDAC32(HiFace based USB-I2S-DAC)-->Denon PMA-1500AE-->JBL E90 3-way speakers
ivo
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 12:37:30 am »

Just try this yourself and let us know what you here...
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 07:06:47 am »

Would be nice to include SSD and eSATA drive in the test.
And to repeat the test with .WAV tracks.
Unfortunately I will be traveling for the next 10 days, but when I am back........
Cheers,
Eric
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 10:26:23 am »

Hi, coming out from lurking in the corner..

I dont whether XX+music in ramdisk is the winner or not, but it is a very good improvement in my system over [music being on a NAS and copy to XX set]. With the latter, I was getting dropouts at the track end, presumeable when XX was copying in the next track? Now the music is cleaner, more dynamic and less resistable to getting up and dancing. yahoo

Peter: can we have a copy all tracks to XX disk before play option please?
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2010, 10:48:27 am »

Yes you can. Use Unattended and activate "Copy to XX Drive".

Happy
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2010, 03:03:05 pm »

Hi

I tried this yesterday with two wavs I know very well. I made a new folder on the ramdisc 'music' and selected the tracks in XX (on the ramdisc XX folder).

Believe it or not the sound appeared a tad more subtile and was easier to enjoy. Below are the setiing I used.

Pretty strange since copy to xx disc was ticked and the file would be loaded to ramdisc anyway.

I don't know how SFS works, but its effect is immediately apparent. Maybe there is still a lot of IO going on with the drive...

regards, Coen
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Settings: Qn: , SFS: , timeres: XT tweaks: , buf: 4096, driver: 8 ms,

Audio PC (jan 19): XXHE PC v1 with RAMdisk w.o. videocard and 1 of 2 cpu fans + BRIX/USB3 storage musicserver. ETN to Fibre converters (linear supplies), 500m SFP modules & 5m OM4 cable. Power cable PE not connected, together with nos1 and poweramp in separate "audio" powerstrip.

Clarixa set + Intona (or Lush 1m), Phasure NOS1a-75B G3 USB (buf 16 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + cheap link to Abaqus 300W plateamps> Bastanis cable-> Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo ("DIY").

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2010, 10:03:43 pm »

Hi,

After my initial excitement I tried to figure out if some settings could yield the same sound I heard from storing the stuff on my (limited) Ramdisc. No Luck for me, nothing I did could lead the way in the direction I wanted it to go (SFS settings, Q sliders, cardlatency).

Thats real bad, since I believe the ramdisc/ramdisc combi is exactly where I want my sound to be (or to baldly move from there into the unknown). Besides that the music is more focussed and playfull it's also like a subliminal door opens to let the music flow straight into my brain. A trick my deceised NOS TDA1541 Dac could also pull off.

Still with me scratching  ?

In a desperate attempt to understand what's going on here I cleared the playlist and selected the same tracks from my HDD. Good sound but no magic here. Note that the very files did allready reside in the XX folder of Ramdisc (since copy to... was ticked).

To mess things up I cleared the playlist, unticked 'copy to...' (files still in XX folder) and played again: still nothing happening here, maybe a little less than before.

My conclusion: the space occupied by the files on the ramdisc makes no difference to the sound, no matter how many times the files are copied to whatever folder.
The magic is only 'there' when the playlist is selected from Ramdisc. It is there rather regardless of (SFS) settings....

What is going on here?????

regards, Coen

p.s. used vintage hardware does not allow for special mode
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Settings: Qn: , SFS: , timeres: XT tweaks: , buf: 4096, driver: 8 ms,

Audio PC (jan 19): XXHE PC v1 with RAMdisk w.o. videocard and 1 of 2 cpu fans + BRIX/USB3 storage musicserver. ETN to Fibre converters (linear supplies), 500m SFP modules & 5m OM4 cable. Power cable PE not connected, together with nos1 and poweramp in separate "audio" powerstrip.

Clarixa set + Intona (or Lush 1m), Phasure NOS1a-75B G3 USB (buf 16 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + cheap link to Abaqus 300W plateamps> Bastanis cable-> Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo ("DIY").

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
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« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2010, 06:21:04 am »

As far as I know, that's impossible  clever How could it be, since XXHE copies the files itself? How could it be different from manual copying? It can't, but I'm 'stupid enough' to give it a try, haha
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« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2010, 07:57:19 am »

Peter: can we have a copy all tracks to XX disk before play option please?

Yes you can. Use Unattended and activate "Copy to XX Drive".

Happy

I guess this answer was too simple. yes
I will make something for this.

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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CoenP
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« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2010, 09:41:51 am »

That would be real nice!!! Good job !
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Settings: Qn: , SFS: , timeres: XT tweaks: , buf: 4096, driver: 8 ms,

Audio PC (jan 19): XXHE PC v1 with RAMdisk w.o. videocard and 1 of 2 cpu fans + BRIX/USB3 storage musicserver. ETN to Fibre converters (linear supplies), 500m SFP modules & 5m OM4 cable. Power cable PE not connected, together with nos1 and poweramp in separate "audio" powerstrip.

Clarixa set + Intona (or Lush 1m), Phasure NOS1a-75B G3 USB (buf 16 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + cheap link to Abaqus 300W plateamps> Bastanis cable-> Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo ("DIY").

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
Marcin_gps
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2010, 07:19:10 pm »

Hi,

After my initial excitement I tried to figure out if some settings could yield the same sound I heard from storing the stuff on my (limited) Ramdisc. No Luck for me, nothing I did could lead the way in the direction I wanted it to go (SFS settings, Q sliders, cardlatency).

Thats real bad, since I believe the ramdisc/ramdisc combi is exactly where I want my sound to be (or to baldly move from there into the unknown). Besides that the music is more focussed and playfull it's also like a subliminal door opens to let the music flow straight into my brain. A trick my deceised NOS TDA1541 Dac could also pull off.

Still with me scratching  ?

In a desperate attempt to understand what's going on here I cleared the playlist and selected the same tracks from my HDD. Good sound but no magic here. Note that the very files did allready reside in the XX folder of Ramdisc (since copy to... was ticked).

To mess things up I cleared the playlist, unticked 'copy to...' (files still in XX folder) and played again: still nothing happening here, maybe a little less than before.

My conclusion: the space occupied by the files on the ramdisc makes no difference to the sound, no matter how many times the files are copied to whatever folder.
The magic is only 'there' when the playlist is selected from Ramdisc. It is there rather regardless of (SFS) settings....

What is going on here?????

regards, Coen

p.s. used vintage hardware does not allow for special mode

That's a very good question, because it's beyond my comprehension. I've just had a jawdrop, had to try few tracks this way, because I couldn't believe my ears. Previous the sound was good, great even, but now it's like Coen said - magic! But again, how? The size for both files is identical...
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crisnee
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2010, 12:47:28 am »

For those of you who are thinking of going the route of copying music to your ram disk before playing it, here's a tiny free program that will make it quick and relatively painless. http://www.mtg.sk/rva/ It's called Cathy.

Even if you don't use it for that, it's a veritable gem (I've wanted a reason to tell people about it for a while--I love great little functional programs from folks who just seem to care but don't want anything in return). If you do use this program, send a post card of your area to Robert's (I think that's his name) daughter, that's all he asks for.

Cathy almost instantly catalogs whatever you give it, say your music directory(s). Then you can search them and instantly come up with relevant files which among other things you can print out (the complete directory with filenames if you like, just the folders, or portions thereof, and for our purposes drag and drop files to your ram disk. 

So what I do is have the Ramdisk music dir open, and the Cathy program search open, you can start them both with a batch file. Then search for Stevie Winwood, drag the album, or files, or whole dir to the ramdisk music dir and your set. Takes no longer than searching in XX and for me is less frustrating.

Chris
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