We all fell in the W7 pitfall

[pedal]

I tested Vista Ultimate x64 SP2 against Windows 7 x64

Well done! But, I think Peter once mentioned that SP2 practically turns Vista into a W7. So "the best" is to use Vista only with SP1. (Who said this was easy?)

PS: I just tortured my computer friend to get me an out of production copy of Vista 64. He will never forgive me if it was all in vain...

Flecko, are you able to repeat the experiment with Vista + SP1 vs. W7?

All the best!

[GerardA]

Pedal.
Aren't you mixing up Vista with Server 2008?
Windows Server 2008 SP2 is like Win 7 and Server 2008 SP1 like Vista.
So use of Vista SP2 is no problem.
Correct me if I'm wrong!

[Flecko]

Well done! But, I think Peter once mentioned that SP2 practically turns Vista into a W7. So "the best" is to use Vista only with SP1. (Who said this was easy?)

(where is the "slam head against wall" smiley?)

Flecko, are you able to repeat the experiment with Vista + SP1 vs. W7

...I have vista 32,64 SP1 and they both can not be installed because of a stupid error "cannot find install.wim". I organized a new version but I thought SP doesn't matter...OMG

So use of Vista SP2 is no problem.
Correct me if I'm wrong!

If so, it would spare me a lot of work. Can somebody confirm?

[PeterSt]

I hope I never said Vista SP2 is like W7 ...
2008 R2 is (indeed).

Peter

[pedal]

Pedal.
Aren't you mixing up Vista with Server 2008?
Windows Server 2008 SP2 is like Win 7 and Server 2008 SP1 like Vista.
So use of Vista SP2 is no problem. Correct me if I'm wrong!

Sorry for the confusion. I mixed up. SP1 or SP2 does not interfer with Vista SQ.

I don't have experience about VISTA vs. W7, apart from reading the reports here on the forum. But my new PC will be ready next week together with the arrival of the NOS1. Then I will sink my teeth into this VISTA matters.

I use W7 on my present PC, and have to say I am very happy with SQ after I upgraded to 9-z3. I wrote a short review about it here. Seemingly I got similar SQ improvement with W7, as others get with Vista. But this is of course impossible to state exactly without doing a head-to-head comparison. Eventually, what I hear with W7+9-z3 is a step in the same direction. The paths of different starting points becomes more similar the closer they get to the mutual target*.


All the best!


*I was so satisfied writing this sentence of Hi-Fi philosophy, that I had to put it in bold. LOL

[PeterSt]

Can you elaborate on this somewhat ?

[BrianG]

Pedal you inspired me to remember:

Each journey begins and also ends. Life is such a journey, yet it is full of journeys within which begin and end

(The Sayings of Kung Fu, the First Season)

[Flecko]

The paths of different starting points becomes more similar the closer they get to the mutual target

That might just be it...

Update: After installing grafikcard, soundcard (rme) and network driver the latency of vista got up to the range of 90us. I assume that it will be also in the same range of 100us like W7, if everything is installed. Sound quality didn't changed noticable. As example: I listened to z2 again (same settings). The sound difference is clearly audible. As SP doesn't should have an influence to SQ I will stick with W7 because it is a lot faster than Vista and works flawless. I keep Vista as second install to watch HD-DVD, that is impossible in W7.

[pedal]

Can you elaborate on this somewhat ?

Well, it’s like 2 men climbing the same mountain. One starts from the south side. The other guy starts from the north side. Their routes are completely different. But they have the same target, and the closer they get to the top, the closer they get to each other. Eventually they join each other at the top.

I have same experience with Hi-Fi.
A “typical” modest priced tube amplifier sounds very different from a equivalent transistor amplifier. But when you start “climbing” up in quality, the tube amp gets less soggy, more tight and transparent. While the transistor route improves in areas like smoother, less mechanical, etc.

The more you advance their qualities the more “similar” they get to each other. The very best tube amplified system I have heard (@Leif) is so transparent and with such a tight bass, that you think it was a top transistor amp.

-And when I upgraded to new opamps in my transistor amplifiers earlier this year, my first thought was “wow – the treble has got a kind of tubelike naturalness and “dark” character.

Best regards
Pedal (turning philosophical while waiting for my NOS1 to arrive…)



PS: RECOMMENDED LISTENING:

[pedal]

Sound quality didn't changed noticable.

If that is true, it means we did 25 pages in this thread for nothing, he-he. 
I hope/hope not it is like that...

(Although I think this topic was the key to discover the SQ improvement when playing from RAM, wasn't it?) 

[Flecko]

If that is true, it means we did 25 pages in this thread for nothing, he-he.

I didn't listened to it very carefully. This should be done with more concentration. But it was just like..ohh I started vista instead of w7. Doesn't matter just want to listening some music...It pretty much sounds the same as I know it...why takes it so much time to open my explorer...lets have a look at the latency...wow it got 90us...I just didn't feel it changed.

[Flecko]

Quote

If that is true, it means we did 25 pages in this thread for nothing, he-he.

I didn't listened to it very carefully. This should be done with more concentration. But it was just like..ohh I started vista instead of w7. Doesn't matter just want to listening some music...It pretty much sounds the same as I know it...why takes it so much time to open my explorer...lets have a look at the latency...wow it got 90us...I just didn't feel it changed.

Just to make it clear because what I wrote could be a little mistakeable: I did not listen very carefully to soundquality difference of vista with 30us and now vista with 90us. I listen very carefully to the diffenrences of vista and w7 yesterday. But it was 7-8 pm, a bad time to listen to music because everyone is turning on his tv, pc, microwave or whatever. I have no power filter, what makes the sound inconsitent over time. That might be a problem if you compare two operating systems. The time between the listening is long and maybe someone has turned on the microwave in the neighbourhood in the meantime, while the system is booting. If you will hear a different noise, it could come from a car driving by your house or somebode is walking down the stairs your ears might adjust to that sound. After that, the sound from your hifi might sound different to you. Comparing under this condition is a lot more difficult (if you are looking for small differences) as normaly, when you just have to press a button and the sound changes. As I compared Vista and W7 my perception changed from W7 ist better than Vista, to Vista is better than W7 and the other way round. I will listen to Vista and W7 at another time (9-10pm) and I will try to get the latency down again. Then I will listen more carefully to 30us compared to 90us. But my impression at the moment is: There is no or no big difference.

[Chriss]

Flenco,
no offense but yes OS is the second step in the audio (digital one) chain(ladder) and if you don't hear the differens Vista/W7 (and if you tweak is huge one for Vista) than you might need to change the other components in your audio system (or you're deaf...well it's more cheap :D ). Accoustic tread is require electricity chain is very important 2 so...start change the 'hardware' first than you''l get the required difference in OS Without bad feelings just really try to help.
Regards, Criss.

[Flecko]

Flenco,
no offense but yes OS is the second step in the audio (digital one) chain(ladder) and if you don't hear the differens Vista/W7 (and if you tweak is huge one for Vista) than you might need to change the other components in your audio system (or you're deaf...well it's more cheap :D ). Accoustic tread is require electricity chain is very important 2 so...start change the 'hardware' first than you''l get the required difference in OS Happy Without bad feelings just really try to help.
Regards, Criss.

Of course, one can think that my system is not resolving enough or I do not hear good. The bigest weakness in my system, I would say, is the hiface and that I do not have a power regenerator or something like this. The rest of my system should be good enough.

At least I can hear up to -45db distortion (depending on distortion) with my system in this test:
http://www.klippel-listeningtest.de/
I am very sure I should not get the "rusty ear" award .

As I said. The difference between z2 and z3 is easy to hear. You can judge yourself how big that difference is in your system. That is why I mentioned it, that you have a reference what I can hear in my system. But as it is on my system, the difference between vista and w7 is not so big that it can easily be heard. I set it up very seriously to not misjudge it and I am not finished yet.

And also without bad feelings : It is often like that, people (me too) want to hear a difference beacause they beleave there should be something different. And of course the difference they now found is better than what they had before. If you like to hear something has improved, you will hear that something has improved (and sometimes it is a real improvement). I have many expamples where I fell for this psycological effect myself. No problem, everyone is doing that. I think there are a lot false positives bacause of this effect. Take the example: If some guy pays 1000€ for a cable, it sounds different and he can think it is better. He payed a lot of money so it must be better corelated to it's price and what the press is saying. Everyone knows there is a difference between cables but just to a certain technical point and then it is just "magic" or taste.

And that is why I am saying: At the moment, there is no significant difference from W7 to Vista, if you set them up the same. But this opinion might change after further listening.

[Chriss]

If you ask me not the HiFace is the problem...XLR is a profi standart not a HI-FI it's made for long feet cables with decent quality...BNC coax. you use in first place is much much better! I don't want to star another war but Class-A ...for the price you pay for it...two monoblock with tubes will make you regret for the late choice and stone TL? why? are you speleologic guy? There is only one material for TL, Horns, BL/Front loaded etc etc etc-WOOD! There is only one material for speakers-PAPER (with leather surrounds) no other place for nice or cute or interesting or whatever even if i want...that's like nature laws, it's a lemma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemma_(mathematics) ). Think about it and try change the XLR cables first!
Criss.