We all fell in the W7 pitfall

[Nick]

Thanks all for the advice regarding CPU heat sinks. I’ve been looking at the products and there looks like some interesting options.

Weren't it that the OS HDD will never spin down. Not with W7 (that's about those three logging processes which remain active, and write to the disk).
But also, I don't think this was Nick's proposition;
Just OS and XX on the same SSD.

Peter,

I bought the SSD recently after reading some positive sound quality comments. I tried placing the OS on the SSD, but Vista did not install well onto the Vertex 2. What I ended up with is the HDD with Vista on it and all my music files. The SSD has only XXHighEnd installed. When XXHighEnd is started from the SSD the music files are copied to the SSD by highend using copy files before play.  Using a "thin" Vista build the HDD will spin down even thought Vista is installed on it. Very, very occationaly it does spin up for a moment briefly, but not often.

I guess this might not be such a good config for your development environment though as you probably need a lot of vista services / network etc running which might keep the HDD spinning, its an option for a “best play back” config though.

So I bought a 60Gb SSD and use about 150mb .... Still its the sound that counts

[manisandher]

In any event, it will be very, very easy for me to check whether 2 SSDs are better than one. I will simply install XX on both SSDs and figure out if there is a difference between them. Peter, I guess you could do the same with your current setup, no?

OK, absolutely NO PLACEBO!!!

Two SSDs (W7 on one and XX on the other) sounds significantly better than everything on one SSD. With two, the sound is full, fluid and totally non-fatiguing.

But I have not yet optimised the OS SSD. Will report back when I do this...

EDIT Just checked and NTFS is already optimised.

So,there is no question in my mind that 2 drives are better than one... and maybe it has nothing to do with Vista vs W7...

Mani.

[Marcin_gps]

Peter, we're home  The best word to describe the difference between sound in W7 is, like you your wife said - zero agressiveness. The sound is rich, I can play very loud and enjoy it very much, though it's 0.9y-8c and no upsampling. I guess I'll have to encourage guys from Cantatis to add 88.2 and 176kHz sample rates to sound card control panel - it's not there now and they claim that Vista doesn't support these frequencies (or they can't handle to enable them).

[AUDIODIDAKT]

We can't say we didn't try !! (on w7)
 

[PeterSt]

Mani - I forgot to tell (sorry !) ... in my case the second SSD (XX on it) is in an external (eSata) enclosure with it's own (brick) PSU. I can hardly imagine *that* does something to the sound. But who knows ...

[manisandher]

Peter, could you just load XX onto your OS (internal?) drive and see if there is a difference in SQ please. Before I start installing Vista, I'd like to eliminate the separate XX SSD from the equation (in your setup anyway).

There is a BIG difference in SQ in my setup. If I had to guess, I'd say it's because my XX SSD in formatted as exFAT and not NTFS... but who knows.

Mani.

[christoffe]

So,there is no question in my mind that 2 drives are better than one... and maybe it has nothing to do with Vista vs W7...

Hello Mani,

I'm one of those manics who wants to have the newest release of the MS OS always, so the "Candidate Release" of W7 was installed on my PC, and upgraded to the official W7 as soon as it was available.
The first installation of XXH was on that W7 PC in October 2009. The SQ of XXH was good but no real  match to the Reimyo CDP-777.
I read Peters post in December and installed VISTA 64 bit.

The change of the SQ was "shattering" in a positive way. Amazing. The music was that involving and it was hard to believe what was going on. (I sold the the Reimyo in January 2010)

Best
Joachim

[AUDIODIDAKT]

Yes, we did fell in the W7 pitfall,

Just came from back my clean Vista install,
Oh, boy..........

Ciska is right, aggressiveness is gone - CONFIRMED

Way more headroom for volume - CONFIRMED

At points when playing loud, no more curling you toes - CONFIRMED

I guess, we say to W7 for audio purposes.
Peter you should only develop for Vista from now on.

Everybody should have a pretty good idea how w7 sounds by now, so hearing this difference is sooo easy.
I'am so happy that the aggressiveness is gone, this has always bothered me.
Vista is the foundation work from there.............

Roy

PS: if people are interested in slimmed and pre-configured versions of Vista, just PM me !!

[PeterSt]

Isn't it crazy ?
Have been playing for hours and hours last night, and from the beginning to the end there was a large smile on my face. Couldn't find anything sounding wrong at even one note.

PS: if people are interested in slimmed and pre-configured versions of Vista, just PM me !!

PM PM PM !
But ... In my case I *need* to upgrade or something. So, I can't perform a clean install because I will be looking for days and days for all my install keys for all the development stuff (plus that stuff itself -> undoable).
I suppose that can't be done ?
Ok, if not I guess it will be another boot, just for playback.
Ah, but indeed, I guess I won't be able to "develop" much with such a slimmed system anyway. Ok.

Thanks,
Peter

[PeterSt]

Peter, could you just load XX onto your OS (internal?) drive and see if there is a difference in SQ please. Before I start installing Vista, I'd like to eliminate the separate XX SSD from the equation (in your setup anyway).

Mani, I am sorry, but I rather don't do that at this moment;
I try to avoid rebooting the PC because that old SSD is really wack, and at one of the three times I rebooted so far, it needed a repair already (with 2 hours of a list with repairs). If all is right I have my new system the end of the day, and then everything can be done.

But if I were you ... just go for it. You won't be sorry.

Peter

[christoffe]

Isn't it crazy ?
Have been playing for hours and hours last night, and from the beginning to the end there was a large smile on my face. Couldn't find anything sounding wrong at even one note.

Hi Peter,

good to see you back in the right yard.

"And  it is a great pity, you lost 9 month with real "State of the art" music replay. 

best
Joachim

[manisandher]

I try to avoid rebooting the PC because that old SSD is really wack...

Peter, please don't do anything that might jeopardise your refound listening pleasure.

But I'm not sure we're on the same page. I simply created an XX folder on my c: drive and extracted all the XX files into this folder and activated XX. That's all. No reboot required. So, I now have a version of XX on my c: drive (alongside W7) and a version of XX on the dedicated d: drive. Apart from restarting AutoHotkey each time, it's easy to switch between the two identical versions of XX. And what is unmistakable is that there is a big difference in SQ. Not subtle one... a big one. And remember that both c: and d: drives are identical - new OCZ Vertex 2 90GB drives.

It's my curiosity speaking here. I'd just like to know if 2 drives make a difference with Vista, as they do with W7.

But if I were you ... just go for it. You won't be sorry.

Oh, I will. But I'd like to incorporate Roy's ideas first.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Hi Mani,

Yes, I get the idea, but notice this is nothing like you said before (that implied detachment of the 2nd SSD).
So, since this apparently is a new situation for you, which one gives the best sound ?
And if it is true in the first place that this is your explicit intention, what happens when the 2nd SSD is detached ? This of course implies that you have the good sound from XX on the OS SSD, which I can't derive from your posts.

But ...
This is all not how I like to work. You know I don't like A-B stuff, you can guess it takes a lot of time, and annoying time as well (why listen 20 times to a same track), while in the mean time nothing makes me think that a 2nd SSD in an external drive suddenly makes the sound so good, *also* knowing that the character of the sound is the same is from before (when no two SSDs where in there for sure).

I also know it may take a lot of time to switch the OS, and I apologize in advance if it isn't going to help you. Otoh I promise it will, as that I estimate that no such thing as SFS "tweaking" will bring anything significant anymore (like do or die in W7).

It is also of utmost importance for me - and with that for you - that I think W7 is just totally wrong. I have been saying that right from the beginning including argumentations (it's all in that other topic); Between each "line of code" W7 seems to do something (my task switching story) and priorities and stuff don't behave normal. They are counter intuitive for a developer like me, and in the end things are out of control because of that. Add to this the SQ controls which most of you now use to eliminate glitches, and all is just WRONG.
So, all together I am now motivated to be on the right track again, and it should be for the best of all of us.

I am also quite confident that the "other" SSD again will make a difference, like SFS and other things still may. But now in the right environment, and not the the wrong one.

Lastly, and this is just an advice, try to listen to music more, instead of the ever and ever tweaking, because you'll get mad of that (although it can be seen as a separate hobby of course). But the real message is, and this is a measure, if this tweaking is NEEDED, something is wrong. It is nothing less like Roy tried to tell. Not only for the stress it eventually implies, but merely for that measure. Compare it with an impedance mismatch; you can tweak the whole world to improve on it (and it will), but the cause should be attacked;
What I have here now, is just right in the base, and is nothing like an SSD improving the sound a bit. All fits again. period.
And NOW try to improve again. And we will ...

Peter

[AUDIODIDAKT]

I think I make a OEM version x64 (or x86) Ultimate, prepped for download.

With a little and easy guide to implement your OWN key and drivers (and your own regional and language settings)
So you can do a unattended install, without you having to answer all those questions coming along with every install.

With the result a personal .iso file, for your dedicated audio pc, that can be burned on dvd and used for a fast and clean install.

But I have to investigate a little more, in how slim it should be.
And do some testing here first.

- all unneeded stuff is removed (reducing the size from 4GB to < 1GB)
- Almost all services are set to bare-bone or are removed at all
- gpu drivers, mobo drivers, soundcard drivers can be implemented (and I think RAID/AHCI drivers, can be implemented too)
- Unattended install: meaning no anoying questions asked during the install process.
- No need to get on the internet after install to get updates (you wont be able to get on the internet anyway, its all gone)

Ill be back on this........

Oh, "we" will do some testing at Peter's to hear for any diffences between x86 and x64 and maybe SP1 vs SP2.
So maybe I have come back on some "things".

[AUDIODIDAKT]

I also know it may take a lot of time to switch the OS, and I apologize in advance if it isn't going to help you. Otoh I promise it will, as that I estimate that no such thing as SFS "tweaking" will bring anything significant anymore (like do or die in W7).

TRUE