Cannot play 24/192 files

[teeraash]

Hi Peter:
Just converted to XX yesterday.  I am quite happy playing 44.1 and 96 files.  But using the latest model 0.9z-2 on my mac mini (late 2009 model) running win 7 via bootcamp, I got two problems;

Firstly, the engine button was gray out and I could not change engine at all (it showed a gray #3 Engine)
Secondly, 44.1 and 96 files sound came through nicely but no sound with 192 files although it showed in the bottom pane that XX was playing the file and in the top left pane it showed correct input and output sampling rates 192000 and 192000 respectively.

I can play 192 files using foobar or J river but obviously I'm not satisfied with their sq.

Regards,
Teera

[PeterSt]

Hi there Teera,

The being grayed out of the Engine# is confusing, but meant to be. It only shows which Engine you implied by choosing the device above it; When that is prefixed with "KS:" it will be an Engine#4 (Kernel Streaming) device, and when it is not prefixed by that, it will be Engine#3 (WASAPI). I will try to make this less confusing in the next version.

About the "no sound" ... you can try to select an Engine#4 device (if there) and see what happens. Not that it will bring you sound, but maybe it comes up with some message with useful information (for me).
To me it looks like -somehow- the Mini allows to pass on something which actually won't play. This could be in the WASAPI area only, but then Foobar/JRiver should suffer from the same (I'm not sure whether your experiences are from WASAPI there).

Also, are the 192 files 24 bit ? (I ask this because 0.9z-2 abusively doesn't support 32 bit files; 0.9z-3 will).

Lastly for now, are you able to play 44.1 upsampled 4 times (using Arc Prediction for that is good), thus 176400 output ?
And if yes, what happens with a 24/96 which is upsampled 2 times, thus 192000 output again ?

Maybe it is good to put your "data" in your signature (you can take mine as an example), which is always convenient for me or others to help out when you have problems. In this case I would like to know what device you try to play this into.

Well, a lot of questions and stuff ... let me know !
Regards,
Peter

And oh ...

[praphan]

Hi Khun Teera,

Welcome on board. I have heard about you from Dr. Suteetat.

Similar to Peter's comment, I wonder if you can share with us the details of your gears and system. Outline them in the signature is very common in this community.

I suspect that this should be to do with the sound device in your Mac. Please check if you sound device support 192KHz sampling rate. I and Doc use Lynx Studio AES 16.

Cheers!
Praphan

[teeraash]

Thanks Peter and K. Praphan.  This is quite late and I am so tired, running around all day and trying to adjust my 'table azimuth at night.  Will get back to both of you tomorrow.  Anyway when you say "sound device", that means my mini soundcard.  Is that right?  And what is the best way to check whether my sound device can play 24/192 or not?  On control panel-sound-playback-sound device-property-advance-sampling rates test?  Sorry for naive question, I've been a mac person for sometime now.

Appreciate your kind help,
Teera

[teeraash]

Hi there,
Here are the details:
1.  I cannot select any other engine except the gray-out #3 Engine using the latest model (but I can use engines 1-3 if using old model such as 0.9x-7).
2.  All tracks that cannot be played are 24/192.
3.  I also got no sound playing 44.1 at quadruple or 96 at double sampling rates.
4.  I did test my sound device using control panel/hardware and sound/sound/playback/Realtek Digital Output/Supported Formats/Sample Rates/..  I can play all shown sample rates except 192.0 khz which played haphazard (no sound, incomplete sound).

So my guess is that the "no sound" problem comes from my sound device or my dac (Emm labs XDS1) not XXHigh 

Any other options left for me besides dishing out my mac mini.

Teera

[PeterSt]

Hi again Teera,

First of all, if something's really not supported, you should receive a message about it. But since you don't get that, something else must be going on.

except 192.0 khz which played haphazard (no sound, incomplete sound).

If I'm reading this correctly, you *do* have sound, but it sounds wrong the least.

But I see you use Toslink (hey, thanks for you sig), and I am fairly sure all kinds of anomalies (like no message but not working) are going on with Toslink and whatever MAC. I have read so much about it ... Besides, I don't think Toslink itself ever can support 24/192, but maybe I'm wrong there. Btw, if it's a bandwidth problem (and it looks like it) for fun you may try to set your DAC Is setting to 16/192 (not 24/192). Just for testing !! and don't forget to set it back.

Then there's also your EMM Labs, and a bit depending on the model and your "knowledge" about it, that too can create strangenessess. You may look here for an example : No sound from Empirical Audio/Off Ramp 3.

One last thing : The High Definition Audio driver -which should be the most modern and compliant- is just the worst there is. It also is about the only driver which doesn't allow for Kernel Streaming (which by itself is correct because MS officially doesn't support it, and this driver is from the newer generation; it just doesn't need to be in there (KS suppport)).

If you can't get it solved otherwise, I am pretty sure all will start to sing with another sound card. Try a Juli@ (EUR 120 or so) and pass the SPDIF (not the Toslink ) through to your DAC. It will give your EUR 2000 of additional pleasure only because of the KS support, and the so much better this Sound Engine is (#4).

You will get it to work ...
Peter

[teeraash]

Hi Peter:

Yes, in the test, I do sometimes have sound with 24/192 but somewhat errortic such as sound comes up only in left channel.
Ok. I'm going to test your hyphothesis that the culprit is "toslink".  Tomorrow I'll borrow Hiface Evo (which is a nice asyn usb hi-rez interface) and connect it to my Emm labs with toslink and AES-EBU.  We'll see.
I config my dac as 16/192 as you suggested, again "play but no sound".
Emm Labs XDS1 is all in one box, cd, sacd, dac up to 24/192 (as recently claimed by Emm's staff).  Ed Meitner (the guy who designed it) is so proud of his toy and is certain that the toslink implementation is superb.  Ok, I'll compare toslink with AES-EBU connection tomorrow.  I cannot go wrong with Emm Labs as there is no configuration to be set at all.  What I can do is to upgrade its firmware from time to time.
Lastly, concerning the soundcard Juli@ that you recommend.  Is it a pci-based soundcard?  I think, mac mini can be used with only usb or firewire external sound card.  I may be wrong.  Please provide more detail or link of Juli@ for mac mini.

Thanks again for supperb support,
Teera

[praphan]

Hi Khun Teera,

Julia by ESI is a PCI-based audio interface with breakout into optical/coax SPDIF and Midi output. I don't think you can use it on your Mac. You might wanna look for some audio interfaces like those manufactured by Weiss.

Guys anyone out there running XXHE on Mac. Please help.

Wish you the best of luck.

Praphan

[teeraash]

Thanks K. Praphan,that's what I think concerning Juli@.  Weiss int 202 is quite expensive.  It should also be matched with exotic cable such as your Nordost  . So I'll try the Hiface Evo first which is much cheaper but has impressed many people at computer audiophile.

Cheers,
Teera

[teeraash]

24/192 is working with hiface evo and toslink. I'm simply awestruck with the dynamic and sound of deep bass of 24/192 tracks.  Change engine to #4.  Only downside is that it crashed out "too many buffer errors".  Any advises?

Teera

[Marcin_gps]

Increase the buffer size and refer to my tip: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1299.0

[teeraash]

Hi Marcin;

Thanks for chiming in.  In my case, I got error message when playing native 192 not 4x qap like yours.  Do I misunderstand something?

Regards,
Teera

[PeterSt]

Teera - There's no difference regarding this between 4 x 44.1 (48) and native 176.4 (192). Between 4 x 44.1 and 192 there's a theoretical small difference though.

I didn't follow the link from Marcin, but have a look at the ToolTip on Device Buffer Size (and KS Mode). There's a small guide on Adaptive Mode and how to find the smallest buffer size of the device (if you don't know it).

Hope this helps you,
Peter

[praphan]

Khun Teera,

Any audible difference in SQ between Toslink and AES/EBU?
Generally AES/EBU delivers better SQ. But your case with M2Tech interface and XD-S1 might be different.

Praphan

[teeraash]

Thanks Peter.  I'll look at those tool tip tomorrow.  Now I want to really enjoy music.

Hi, K. Praphan; most people seem to think that aes/ebu is better than toslink.  To me, it's depend on implementation.  Thus, listening and go with what we like.  I don't have aes/ebu cable now but plan to buy a decent one to compare to my current setup.

For now I'm convince that Hiface Evo is giving a very big bang for a baht spent.  However, it is now on a backlog order and I don't know when I'll be able to buy one.

Teera