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boleary
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« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2010, 09:37:57 pm » |
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At this moment I have no clue as to what can be happening that this influences so much, but regarding the character of it (frequencies come forward which shouldn't) I can even imagine it can me measured. It's the "coming forward" of those frequencies and, conversely, their slow "disappearance" (and emergence of others....) when increasing the SFS, that has sorta obsessed me lately. So far, it seems there are no hard and fast rules for it, only generalizations. Most 16/44 material sounds pretty good (settings as signature below) between 70-100; however, SOME material, Oscar Peterson's "Night Train", 24/96 HD Traks version, sounds better with a setting around 20, while Karen Carpenter, 16/44 home rip (WMP unfortunately, would rerip it but can't find the disk!), becomes silk at 120. Its because I find myself frequently fiddling with this setting that I ask for the convenience of a button on the face of the GUI. If you guys can make XX automatically adjust to the optimal setting per trak, that would be great too, though I think you'd need to employ magic, or maybe just adjust a cpu power setting or two.....to get that happening.  |
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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manisandher
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« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2010, 12:15:42 am » |
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For anyone who's interested, after quite extensive listening, my 'new' SFS values are:
35 - for non-upsampled 16/44.1 material
50 - for non-upsampled 24/176.4 material
50 - for QAP upsampled 16/44.1 material
These seem to be the 'Goldilocks' values for my system as it currently stands.
If you haven't played around with SFS yet to see how it affects the sound, then you should... asap...
Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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Marcin_gps
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« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2010, 08:43:59 am » |
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What happened to file size related values? |
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manisandher
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« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2010, 10:22:00 am » |
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Haha, this was only ever a hypothesis and I made it clear that it could just have been a total coincidence. In any event, I shunned the hypothesis as soon as I discovered there seems to be an inverse correlation between the optimum SFS and the CPU power.
Now it could well be that larger files do actually require larger SFSs, but testing this with all the variables at play might prove really difficult.
Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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Marcin_gps
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« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2010, 02:05:09 pm » |
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Yeah, a hypothesis which can be very easy verified and for me it's true. Try playing very short tracks, which for 16/44 would have track size of around 15-20MB and compare the SFS of that 15 or 20MB to your 'Goldilocks' values'.
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Marcin_gps
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« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2010, 07:55:34 pm » |
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I've just had a session with Stan Getz - The Girl From Ipanema (24/96). The track played upsampled (double) sounds really bad with the SFS at 50. The voice and instruments are very unnatural and the bass is somehow missing. The one thing that in my opinion seems better is high, although I don't think it is meant to be so clear in that recording (reconrded in 1963). Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, that the optimal SFS maybe doesn't 100% equal the track's size, but I'm sure it is quite close and each time I play a small track (file size), the small SFS value sounds best, and the same formula applies for large tracks.
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PeterSt
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« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2010, 04:59:59 am » |
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Marcin, what would have been the best size for that track you think ?
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
Global Moderator
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Marcin_gps
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« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2010, 06:19:46 am » |
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The track is 109 MB and I played it with 109, 50 and 25MB SFS. I don't know if that's the optimum, since I can't listen to analog source and compare, but for me it sounds pretty damn good. It would be nice if more people contributed - played around with various values and came here to post their findings. If we find the 'golden' rule then I guess you could implement it to XXHE next to manual SFS setting, as it is right now.
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Suteetat
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« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2010, 05:20:58 pm » |
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I have been experimenting a bit with split file size. SQ definitely changes and it really depends on your system and your preference.
In my system, larger file size give warmer, may be a tad darker, fuller sound whereas smaller file size is leaner and moving toward drier side
as split file size gets smaller. I definitely does not want to change split file size regularly depending on the file being play.
For me, I find 350mb to be the sweet spot. Anything bigger, the sound is a bit too sluggish and fat, but smaller split file size is too lean for my taste.
So for now, I have to accept the occasional out of memory error. At least now iPad/VNC make things a bit more bearable!
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Intel i7 950 12GB DDR3 triple channel, Win7 64bit sp1 on SSD,
firewire -> Weiss INT202 -> Playback MPS-5-> ??
0.9z-4, KS-adaptive, buffer 256, Q1=1, no oversampling, SFS 100, straight contiguous,
minimum Clock Resolution, Scheme 2
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Marcin_gps
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« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2010, 06:05:02 pm » |
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350 MB? That can't work well with upsampling... Maybe with DAP it could work, but certainly not for QAP. I encourage you to try some very short track, check its file size and set the same SFS. Then compare to your 350MB setting.
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boleary
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« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2010, 07:01:19 pm » |
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I haven't noticed a specific connection between music file size and the appropriate SFS setting. Here things like powerful female vocalists and violins totally benefit from a higher SFS, whereas classical guitar and piano, generally, sound much better, richer overtones and tighter treble, with a lower SFS.
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
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manisandher
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« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2010, 09:57:31 pm » |
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I ordered a new mobo and nice i7, so tomorrow that should be up and running... I'd be interested in knowing whether your preferred SFS values come down with a more powerful CPU. Oh, and welcome to the modern world! Mani. |
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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manisandher
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« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2010, 12:32:57 am » |
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For anyone who's interested, after quite extensive listening, my 'new' SFS values are:
35 - for non-upsampled 16/44.1 material
50 - for non-upsampled 24/176.4 material
50 - for QAP upsampled 16/44.1 material
These seem to be the 'Goldilocks' values for my system as it currently stands. My new Goldilocks value is 36 for all material. Does anyone have an explanation as to why the SFS affects the sound so much? How is it that we're all pretty much hearing the same thing (irrespective of our preferred SFS value)? Reducing the SFS below the Goldilocks creates a 'thin' and 'shouty' sound. Increasing it beyond the Goldilocks creates a 'thick' and 'too mellow' sound. What the hell is going on here? Mani. |
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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PeterSt
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« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2010, 07:05:26 am » |
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On the matter of that boundary ... no clues here. But, I tried to avoid anything which can matter, and in 0.9z-3 you will have 3 options : - The old one; - A new one with certain organization which IMO can't be influenced by the Size; - A new one with certain different organization which IMO can't be influenced by the Size. At least this is a piece of cake to re-implement after I lost the source of it yesterday. Took a month to think about it only. Peter |
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
Global Moderator
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Marcin_gps
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« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2010, 08:45:33 am » |
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I ordered a new mobo and nice i7, so tomorrow that should be up and running... I'd be interested in knowing whether your preferred SFS values come down with a more powerful CPU. Oh, and welcome to the modern world! Mani. Peter said, that his DAC is totally resistant to PC  Joke, we know that sth is going on on a software side rather. I personally don't believe in speed/robustness corelation to SFS value. |
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