SQ of 0.9z-1

[PeterSt]

[moderator action]

Marcin, I removed your 2 x 3m picture, and I hope you don't mind. It couldn't be handled really. You may repost it in a smaller version ... if it is on-topic anyway (I really couldn't see what it was about).

[manisandher]

FileMail and problematic files should do the job ...

Thanks Peter - I'll do this when I'm back home later this week. I'm really interested in hearing what you think of these digitised vinyl files.

Mani.

[manisandher]

Did you get the PCI Adapter Case?

Yep, got the case. Will report my findings when I'm back in the UK later this week.

Any other things on your mind?

Interesting question! Actually, I'm very chilled right now. I've proven to myself that my hardware is transparent. This is so nice to know this. No more messing around putting PCs together, playing around with interfaces and/or digital cables. This is cool.

But I'm still waiting on Peter's findings regarding AP... If it's currently working as he intended, then that's fine. But for whatever reason, it no longer 'works' with my DAC. Don't get me wrong, it still sounds good. But I'm just losing the 'body' and 'weight' of instruments and music in general. Maybe this has always been the case and I've only just realised...

Mani.

[Marcin_gps]

Transparent, you say?
Give me a favor and try this:
1. Run msconfig (from start menu, just type msconfig in search field)
2. Go to Boot tab -> Advanced options
3. Tick Number of processors, select 1, confirm
4. Restart
5. Play some music
6. Go back with remarks

You may be able to set number of cores in BIOS, but I'm not sure if your mobo supports this.

[manisandher]

Transparent, you say?

Hi Marcin,

This isn't speculation on my part - I explained how I arrived at this conclusion here:  http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/How-can-influence-SQ (conclusion at the bottom).

The 'analogue -> AD -> AES -> PC -> AES -> DA -> analogue' chain sounds identical to the direct feed from the analogue source.

Furthermore, XX playing a 24/192 recording of the analogue source also sounds identical to the analogue source.

ERGO... my PC is OK. Nothing more to be done here.

Where I still have some work to do is in optimising the playback of 16/44.1 files via XX.

But look, I can easily change the number of cores from the BIOS - I'm currently using 2 and not 4. I'll happily try 1 core once I have some time.

Cheers,
Mani.

[Marcin_gps]

Mani, but that doesn't proove anything, at least not when it comes to digital playback with XXHE, right? :D

[GerardA]

Mani,
I read your post at CA with great interest, but one question bothers me: first you hear all kinds of differences with different SPDIF properties and in the end everything sounds the same?
What did you do to arrive at this stage?

[manisandher]

Huh? When did I say, "Everything sounds the same?"

If I make a change to the AES voltage, to the AES cables or to buffers, the sound changes. It's taken me a while to find the 'sweet spot' and I probably wouldn't have found it if it were not for Keith Johnson's input. And here was the issue:

From the Model Two manual:
“The AES Ground Isolators should be connected to all AES digital signal inputs and outputs at the Model Two whenever they are in use.
The AES Ground Isolators consist of a number of turns of precision 110 Ohm balanced, shielded cable fed through multiple ferrite cores, each having a different selected permeability.”

So naturally, I have been using these AES Ground Isolators since I got the Model Two. But in his response to me, KJ said:

“... I find that sometimes a ferrite core on the interconnect wire or more drastic changes make improvements for that particular hookup. However things could be better or worse for a different one."

(The highlight is mine.) After reading this, I decided to try without these Ground Isolators (going against the strong recommendation in the manual)... and voila, I found that they were making things worse and not better. [EDIT: Having removed them, I found the 'sweet spot' by using an AES voltage of 5V and my 'cheap' Sommer Dsub-AES breakout cable.]

So what exactly is the same? Well:
1) the analogue source
2) the analogue source being fed through the Model Twos AD section and then internally to its DA section
3) the analogue source being fed through the Model Twos AD section then through an AES cable to the RME card, through the RMEs mixer, and then back down an AES cable to the Model Twos DA section
4) a 24/4fs recording of the analogue source being played back on XX

These four sound identical, all else being equal.

Mani.

[GerardA]

Aha, now I get it.
So with the newfound sweetspot your DAC is completely transparant!

I did not try this experiment yet but I'm not shure I will like the result! 

[manisandher]

I did not try this experiment yet...

Do you have an AD/DA converter, or is it just a DAC? If it's the latter, you're not going to be able to do exactly what I did.

Mani.

[manisandher]

Mani, but that doesn't proove anything, at least not when it comes to digital playback with XXHE, right? :D

I agree that it doesn't prove that my PC is necessarily optimally configured to play back 16/44.1 files through XX. But it does prove that my PC is optimally configured to play back 24/4fs files through XX. I mean, how could playback be any better than the analogue source from which the 24/4fs files were derived?

But I doubt the PC is strained any more when playing back 16/44.1 files than when playing 24/4fs files, even with QAP and/or HDCD - my understanding is that this is all done in pre-processing.

Of course, I totally concede that my analogue source, amp and speakers may not be of high enough quality to really hear nauanced differences. It is therefore here that I would now like to focus, rather than on the digital side of things. As I improve the analogue components, maybe I will start hearing deficiencies in the digital recording/playback chain...

Mani.

[GerardA]

Yeah, that was my next question!
What turntable, cartridge, preamp are you using for this?
I guess if it is to 'low-end' the comparison will be veiled by this.

I'm going to record with a terratec phase 24 FW and play with a HongKong Dac.
First have to find a good program to record in 24/192.
And hope the needle is clean and undamaged enough...
The good point is that recording vinyl this way allows you to play the records loud (through XXHE) without any acoustical feedback.

[manisandher]

The good point is that recording vinyl this way allows you to play the records loud (through XXHE) without any acoustical feedback.

Exactly.

My vinyl setup is:

Technics SP-10MkII on a solid metal plinth and mounted securely onto a supporting brick wall  (i.e. the most rigid support available)
SME 3009 ('pre-improved') arm
Denon 103 cartridge
Rotel RHQ-10 phono stage
Henry Matchbox HD single-ended phono to balanced XLR converter

This is not a particulary expensive vinyl setup, as far as they go. However, I know many vinyl aficionados who would claim that this is a very good setup. As I have already stated, 16/44.1 files that I've recorded from single-sided 45rpm vinyl on this setup trounce the equivalent CD rip.

Good luck with your recordings!

Mani.

[manisandher]

Did you get the PCI Adapter Case?

Yes, I received the 'PCIe to 4xPCI Expansion Box' from VirtuaVia a couple of weeks ago. It was a disaster!

Not only did my latency go to pot (I couldn't even play Adaptive with a buffer of 4096 samples!), but it made my PC very unstable also. I was regularly getting the blue ‘screen of death’. I installed the ‘ExpressBooster’ program that came supplied with the box, which just made things worse – my PC would not boot up at all. I had to boot in safe mode and uninstall the software.

In any event, as you've no doubt already have garnered from this thread, I'm satisfied that my RME card is performing well plugged directly into the PCI socket of the mobo.

Please learn from my mistake - even though I received a full refund for the box (€189), this episode has cost me >€100 in shipping costs. I strongly recommend anyone to AVOID this box. However, I commend VirtuaVia for providing good customer service and a 'no quibble' money back policy.

Mani.

[Marcin_gps]

Thanks for sharing! You save me huge portion of frustration.
Did you think about feeding RME with linear PSU?