The best amp and speaker setup for digital playback

[Calibrator]

Smells like an oily substance that eminates from snakes.

I suspect the only purification that will happen, is to your wallet, as your hard-earned money is removed.

I had a good laugh while reading thru that site so thanks for the link.

Cheers,

Russ (living in a real world)

[stoneman]

Hi manisandher

(Re experience with the 6000's)  To be honest, I dont really know! Sounds a bit daft, but I've had them for so long (18+ years?  Not sure now) that I dont have a separate reference point. 

I cant say I notice them being slow vs the Quads - its all quite lifelike (well, as lifelike as audio systems can be).  I suppose since I run them below 40hz it doesnt really make that much difference, they just 'sit' sonically under the Quads filling in the last bit of the spectrum.

BTW, I know this is criminal but the SL600i's have been relegated to satellite duties from the Home Theatre system when I'm playing music in the lounge off that PC - one on the balcony and one in the dining room (on the original Foundation stands too!). I couldn't bring myself to part with them.

In my office I use a NuForce Icon amp into a pair of little KEF 3001's (I think) that sit on the desk on either side of my monitors (3 x 30" Dell) and one of their matching do-nut style subs near my feet, works quite well!   

regards
Andy
     

[han]

Hi everyone!

It's quite a thing, getting this ridiculously expensive Pre-amp out of my system.... But since a few of you guys out there, claim that it is the only way to purity (and yes, getting a part out of the chain should be purer) i gave it a try.

My NAT Utopia pre is very very natural because of the very few elements in the signalpath but there is a difference indeed. My sound is even more open, bit more stage and so on. Seems to be a good step. But this experiment leaves me with one question and i hope that one of you can give me some answers. My listeningroom is quite small right now (30 square meters) but it will shortly be much much bigger (over 100 sq. m. and some 4m high). The outputlevel  (volumewise) from my 92 Db Kaiser Kawero's  is just ok for now (i mean it plays just loud enough), with the pre-amp i could blow my windows away.

I wonder if this setup will be able to play loud enough for the much bigger room

And second is there a way to digitally manage the volume or would for example the Weiss 202 DAC solve this "problem" because of it's volume knob and the 4 coarse settings?

Hope that someone can help me out. If so, i have a qwonderful pre-amp for sale.....

Thank you in advance!!

Han

[Nick]

Han hi,

Nice looking amplication you have. I am using 103db horns driven by 30 watt amps. The speaker have active bass drivers with 150 watt per channel. At the moment I listen in a galleried hall landing space (not ideal) of 80 square meters by 5m high, so quite similar in volume to your new room.

In my case I have to drive the speakers quite hard. With 92db speakers your system will need to play at quite high amplifier outputs fill the space. I listen from about 6 meters and have tuned the bass crossover response up by about 5db. I still do not get the balance of smaller rooms. My guess is that your near field listening will be ok but listening at greater distance may change the balance. Best to give it a go and see.

Regards,
Nick.

[PeterSt]

Ok, let's see ..

My listening room is 12 x 8 x 3 = near 300m3. Yours (Han) is 400m3. That's 30% more.

My amps are 27 Watts. But, 27 for mid-high and 27 for the bass (the mid-high acts as a pre-amp for the bass).
With my DAC -which outputs 1.5VRMS- I play at -15dB for the softests albums (normal would be -27dB). Btw, of course I use the digital volume from XX - which I thought was an obvious solution, or I don't understand the question about that).
My speakers are 115dB.

The above really puts the room under pressure, and listening level is easily 90dB everywhere in the room.

While my problem is that I don't know the relation between needed dB and the volume of the room (hopely others or you can take the time to google it out), it would theoretically come to this when we only use distance :

Your room is 6M long, mine is 12. That needs 36dB (6dB per meter) more.
Your speaker is 92dB, mine is 115. That needs 23dB more.
Your DAC will be 2VRMS, while mine is 15, that needs 6dB less (not 100% sure about this one).
I play at -15dB at the most, so that's 15dB less. But, a that soft album can be boosted by 3dB (XX will do that). So 18dB less.

So we have 36 + 23 - 6 - 18 = 35dB you need additionally to what you have now, but which will be at the low side, because of the higher ceiling. Maybe the 30% because we already took into account the sqm roughly.

Even if with pre-amp your windows go out, I don't think a preamp will have that gain. You'll need a bigger amp ...
Maybe it is not fair to use all that volume, because at a normal listening distance things change drastically. But it is my opinion that the room needs to be under pressure if you really want to do it well, so YMMV. And like Nick suggested, you won't be able to listen nicely back in the room (might be the kitchen) which in my case really doesn't matter. SPL doesn't drop much, but first you have to have it loud enough.

Maybe first look for an amp, and next for a DAC ... Or keep on using the preamp and see how far you come with it ()
Peter

[CoenP]

I don't want to sound like a tutor, but in a free field a point source looses power-to-three acoustic power with distance. So for a DOUBLING of the distance there is a 8X or 9db decrease in acoustic power.
This will correspond with the nature of low frequencies that diffract and radiate in all directions. High frequencies bundle (as result of conus or horn geometry) and will loose half space power of 4X or 6dB per DOUBLING of the distance in a free field. This is worst case since bundling is expected to lead to less than halfspace radiation. Consequently the difference betwee listening at 4 or 5 meters is smaller that between 4m and 8m!

Note that the room also reflects the soundwaves, wich is especially important for low frequencies which refections add to the LF power in the room. Since the ceiling is high, power is lost there. Hard walls also refelect the mid and high freqeuncies, so dependent on the radiation pattern of the speaker these refections play a role or not...
All in all it isquite little hard to predict the actual acoustic powerresponse of a given loudspeaker in a room, I believe it to be less than 6dB per doubling of the listening distance and compensation for LF is likely.

I would expect the bigger room and further listening distance needs at most 6dB more loudspeaker output than the room of Peter, however the difference in loudspeaker efficiency is vast and more important. This is 20db or 100 times more amplification power for the smame acoustic output. You need a very big amp and speakers that can do away with the heat and distortion at high excursions.
You need in the end either a smaller room, lower listening levels, closer listening or more effcient speakers (arrays or horns) to play loud.

regards, Coen

[Flecko]

I have an eye on this one:
http://www.hs-devices.com/english/PDFs/Datenblatt%202510c.pdf
It has even much lower distortion than the BMS 4590!
my2c
greetings Adrian

[han]

Thank you so much for all your kind advise!

Gonna plough trough these advises over and over but I guess that "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" so to speek. I'll keep you informed about my findings in the new situation.

The main issue and answer is that with a bigger amp problems can be solves if they occur! Hmm, did one of you ever take a look at the NAT Transmitter monoblocks? They deliver 120 W pure class A Single ended.... Nice pair!

I'll try to get my mortgage a bit higher!

Thanks again, regards,

Han

[Telstar]

The main issue and answer is that with a bigger amp problems can be solves if they occur! Hmm, did one of you ever take a look at the NAT Transmitter monoblocks? They deliver 120 W pure class A Single ended.... Nice pair!

How many paralleled devices? silicon or vacuum?
120W SE class A is really an achievement.