09-y8

[DannyD]

Now I'm puzzled.  I thought Adaptive Mode was really just a way to help people who were having trouble getting the buffer size and Q1 setting dialed in on Special Mode... that if Special Mode and Adaptive Mode were run with the same buffer size and number of samples they would sound the same.  Am I missing something?

[phantomax]

Hello everybody!
In my tube based system 09-y8 in adaptative mode is more detailed but no less warm than special.
In any case either of the two is a major improvement.
Due to particular conditions I have to use headphones more than I'd like to do. And there is a clear sympton to me: before the tube mods of my DAC ( this summer  www.lampizator ) and mainly the discover of XXHE ( this autumn ) I hardly could hear a CD without a heavy sense of fatigue at the end ( apparently it sounded OK. but after a half of hour or so ...)    very exhausting
Well, yesterday I could hear a entire opera ( 3 CD's in a row ) and even so I wanted to listen more 
Furthermore, the low level detail made unnecessary increase the volume to hear more and this is very healthy for my ears.
To conclude, Peter, thank you very much for make me believe again in digital after many, many years of bitter decepcions.
Maxi

[PeterSt]

Hi Maxi - Very nice to hear. Thank you you wanted to share it !

[PeterSt]

Now I'm puzzled.  I thought Adaptive Mode was really just a way to help people who were having trouble getting the buffer size and Q1 setting dialed in on Special Mode... that if Special Mode and Adaptive Mode were run with the same buffer size and number of samples they would sound the same.  Am I missing something?

No no no !

Adaptive Mode : Another version of Kernel Streaming BUT allowing for ultra low latency. Its way of working further is the same as Normal Mode.
Special Mode : Another version of Kernel Streaming BUT allowing for even more ultra low latency (some 100 times ). Its way of working is completely different from Normal Mode.

So :

that if Special Mode and Adaptive Mode were run with the same buffer size and number of samples they would sound the same.

No, they will not.
Sorry ...

[DannyD]

My bad, Peter.  I think I get it now.  I’m kind of preferring Special mode with my Lynx=>BAD Alpha setup where I can go pretty low without snaps, crackles, or pops. Brilliant clarity and still luscious tone.  I'm so happy with it that I sold my Spectral CD player! Now I’m anxiously awaiting delivery of a HiFace for use in my second system with a 1980’s-vintage Enlightened Audio Designs DSP-9000 DAC.  No high-rez, but have two setups will help shed more light on how the various settings influence sound.  This, of course, will come at a heavy price: I will be twice as neurotic as ever!   

[CoenP]

Hello,

I would like to share that I am not all that exited about the 09-08c version. I played a lot with the different modes and Q1 slider and did not manage to get 'special mode' to operate without dropouts/distortion. Somehow with any setting in the end I didn't care much about listening, a very bad sign.

So I decided to rerun y06, which I thought better suited my taste.

Wow, this was the sound I liked from XX, seemed even better than before albeit with a few hickups. 
Could this be the famed special mode?
And yes what I have not been able to achieve before smiled at me in the P3B file: Special Mode!! So I stopped XX and selected another track to enjoy some more music, however I got quite good, but not só special sound. Checked the new P3B: normal mode. Huh? Save for the volume slider on the driverpanel of the M-audio and selecting the new track I didn't change anything. In a row of ten attempts with the same track I once got special mode to operate again, with however a lot of distortion at the previous Q1 setting (1), upping it to 3 got some decent music out of the system.

So it seems that something unknown to me (yet) determines the feasability of getting special mode in y6 to work, while in y8 it doesn't work at all. Weird. A little context: this was observed on my antique XP-SP3 pentium III.

For now I settle pleasantly with Y6 with low driverbuffer (64) and high Q1 (30) in normal mode. No complaints!

regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Hey Coen,

Well, what happened to you with the "sudden" Special Mode is exactly why I had to change it into a more explicit thing. It just can get into that, and when so it is detected and reported in the log file. Btw, today this still happens like that, but now we dictate it explicitly (as per the KS Mode setting).

Although it may look very strange to you - and even contradictionary, to me it looks quite normal. I mean, what you can't get done by explicit means, can happen to you automatically, if only things are let free, so to speak. And that 6 version did just that.

Now, the real cause of things be able to get done or not, is the state of your PC. To me too it can happen that my Special Mode (@ 22 samples) just won't work or keeps on clicking. This is "just" a matter of rebooting the PC, and all is well again. BUT, obviously you first have to have the experience that it can work, or IOW, whatever it is that suddenly lets it stop working ... who cares, but try a reboot.

If I have been copying a lot of files or did other "heavy stuff" to the memory (or what I expect of it) I always reboot the PC before using it for playback again.


Ok ... You do get Adaptive Mode to run (8c) ? If so, at what Buffer and Q1 settings ?

[CoenP]

Peter,

Thanks for your reply. I allways use the XP sleepmode for fast booting, so that might very well impact te availability of special mode. I will try the reboot soon.

No problems with adaptive mode in 8c. This even works with very low buffersettings and low Q1 (2-3). I however do prefer normal mode on my system. I've also been playing with the sliders and buffer, but got no satifying sweet spot with 8c.

regards, Coen

[Telstar]

No problems with adaptive mode in 8c. This even works with very low buffersettings and low Q1 (2-3). I however do prefer normal mode on my system. I've also been playing with the sliders and buffer, but got no satifying sweet spot with 8c.

regards, Coen

If you dont upsample, try Q1:1, all other Q to 0 and adaptive mode. Choose the lowest latency that does not give you "too many buffers" error. For me this sounds best.

[glynnw]

After much listening, I prefer the non-kernal streaming mode and engine 3 on my system.  The detail of engine 4 is nice, but when a cello comes in I just much prefer Engine 3.  A much more resonant mellow sound, which I find easier on my ears.

[PeterSt]

Hi Glynn, thank you for letting this know.

Was your experience with KS Special Mode ?
FWIW : It seems that I prefer Adaptive.

Peter

[glynnw]

I was using adaptive mode.  I believe that one's preference for the different modes will be very system dependent.  My preference for Engine 3 was based on using my Bottlehead III preamp.  A week ago I purchased a 35 year old Sansui CA 3000 preamp. Hard to believe, but it sounds very good - in some ways worse than the Bottlehead, in some ways better. But it retrieves so much low level detail that with KS-Adaptive it is almost too much detail.  I wish I could figure out how to modify my Bottlehead to have the best of each.  But if I have to choose, I will take smoothness and tone over detail.

[PeterSt]

I wish I could figure out how to modify my Bottlehead to have the best of each.

Yes, this is the great challenge or even "sport". In order to be able to do that, you'd have to recognize what's causing what. No, I am not saying you will be able to do that, but it is something I have learned over time. And it takes some years ...

Anyway, I would be proud of owning such a Sansui. Otoh, I wouldn't be using it because I don't like preamps, haha.
... which brings me to this :

I don't know whether you have ever tried it, but you may try to use XXHighEnd without preamp at all. You may not get good sound because of impedance mismatch or not enough drive, but *if* something is coming from it, you will hear the character of the sound as how it really is (but "colored" by your main amp and speakers of course). From this you will learn which preamp actually does what to the sound, and from there you will learn what is "good" and what may not be good at all although you like it. From there again you may learn what not to like (because it's only color you hear, and not the real sound). It may turn your whole thinking upside down.

I don't think there is something like a preamp (or anything) creating too much detail to the sense of "you don't like". What *is* very well possible though is that you preceive fake detail. And, I know myself how bad fake detail actually is, despite you hear more detail ... Think like bringing noise into photos which sharpen. But it is still noise doing it and it just can't be right, no matter what you pereive from it.

If I were you, I'd replace all the capacitors I could find in the Sansui, let it burn in for a week, and listen again.
Much better though would be a setup without preamp. But remember, this doesn't go automatically (impedance and drive).

Peter

[Marcin_gps]

I used to listen @ special mode with Q1 at 2 and Q2/3 at 30. Today I switched to adaptive (Q1=1 other Qs to 0) and this is the best sound so far. Peter, could it be any better than this? I have buffer size set at 32 samples. Lowering Q1 even further results in lowering SQ 

[Marcin_gps]

Today I installed fresh system - the same configuration, drivers etc and suddenly adaptive mode doesn't sound as good as special mode oO Would someone explain that *magic* to me? I thought I had it figured out, but nooooo, I have to keep on trying [;[;[;