trying .9-y6 on xp sp2 - need suggestions

[fzman]

Hello all,

I installed xxhigh end last night on my for-audio computer, which is built using the cics cplay/cmp suggested cpu and mother board, along with many of the bios tweeks he suggests.  it is not connected to the internet, and is on an audiophile rack, and powered with a very good power cord.  i am using an essence stx pci-e sound card, with an outboard linear power supply feeding it 12v and 5v thru the molex connector.

i have been using it via analog outs, but recently have been trying a ps audio perfect wave dac, on native mode....

normally i use winamp with the steve monks ks plug in, or a recompiled otachan asio dll, by running winamp in cmp mode.

xxhighend sounds good so far, but I have a number of questions about configuring it, and what to look out for.  there is no provision in the stx driver to set buffers, only in the xx control panel.  should i aim for a high number or a low number?  when i click special mode, i get nothing but gritty noise.

i have not played with the q controls yet, but having 5 of them allows an enormous number of possible settings, and I am daunted by the task of trying them all......

i am going to stick with xp, so i would like to find out what xxhighend can really do before i decide to buy it.

i also have the prodigy hd-2 sound card (two of them, and advance and a standard- the standard is modded with better caps, better jacks, and with better opamps.

hope this was the right subforum to post in- I am not looking for someone to dictate what I should do, but to give me some guidelines as to how to "optimize" this software.

thanks for responding.

mark

[PeterSt]

Hi there Mark, and of course.

Well, I'm not quite sure it is your intention, but I'd concentrate on the PWD. But, and pardon my ignorance, how is this related to the pwx driver ? So, I just don't know about that. However, you say you have sound from the PWD, so let's continue with that (at least for now), and I assume your "native mode" runs through the stx, right ?

So, about those additional 4 Q controls, just leave them be, and set Q2/3/4/5 at 0. Q1 though is important;

As the release notes say, if you don't know the buffer size of the sound device (which in your case seems to be the stx), set Q1 to 0, and choose each Device Buffer Size from the largest (as put forward by XXHE) to the smallest, until you get a Too many Buffer Errors within a second. Next choose the before trialed buffer size, set Q1 to 1, and this is your lowest "latency" setting possile (Adaptive Mode that is !!). This lowest Q1 value (thus always 1) is supposed to sound the best, although it is completely up to you to find out the real merits for your system, soundcard and DAc (etc.). In fact, there's nothing more to it.

Allright, what you just did, is finding out the soundcard's buffer size, and in the end it comes down to "matching" the by you chosen buffer size with "your" Q1 value. Thus, for the stx this is one buffer size only (because it can't be set (??)), while for the Prodigy it may be settable - and now it is up to you to a. match the setting in the soundcard (buffer size) with the Q1 setting in XXHighEnd (which is simply done by entering the chosen soundcard buffer setting in XXHighEnd) for the best sound to your perception (thus : each soundcard buffer setting may sound different, but always denote that setting in XXHighEnd and use Q1 to compare) - and b. find the soundcard's buffer size that sounds best to you (and never forget to denote the chosen setting in XXHighEnd). Now, once you found the best buffer setting, you can fine tune that with Q1 (2, 3, 4, etc.)).
Here too, the best sounding option will be the smalles sound device buffer setting, BUT, it may be not usable for you (clicks, ticks). So (and again generally) choose the lowest setting which doesn't produce clicks and all.

I hope you could get this a bit, and that you understand that when no buffer size can be set for the sound device, you can always use (better : let XXHighEnd use) the one setting which applies to it. Even if you don't know what applies (see the procedure to find it, above and in the release notes).

If it is not clear it will be me at lousy explaining, so please ask further if you can't understand it.
Regards,
Peter

[fzman]

Thanks, Peter.  I only had a sort while to try it last evening, and it was tricky to set up, since the pc did not have the net frame stuff installed, so i had to d/l on another pc, and then move it over with a usb stick.  what i did notice was that if I slid the q1 control all the way down to the bottm, the playback either stopped, or the sound became completely unrecognizable - just nasty squeals,and a "grinding noise" like a horribly blown speaker.

i will try your suggestions tonight, and see what happens.  I can also put one of my prodigy cards into the computer to try it as well, although it is toslink only, and i have a philosophical preference for coax spdif.

i will let you know what i hear after i experiment a bit.

best regards,

Mark

[PeterSt]

Mark, to be sure you get what we're doing here currently :

With Engine#4 (Kernel Streaming) we are seeking the limits and crossing borders of what normally is possible. Thus, those around somewhat longer even expect sound to be distorted at first (to be sure to be over the limit), to next find the limit without distortion, that situation bringing the best sound. This may look as a strange operation to you, but when you grow with the "evolution", you will take it for granted, and will even be very happy to find your limit and your best sound.

i will try your suggestions tonight, and see what happens.

I must emphasize that yesterday I forgot to tell you that my suggestions of operation spring from 0.9-y7, while you seem to be using y-6. That (Adaptive Mode) won't work there ! So, although Special Mode (which is what you will be talking about I assume) sure has its own sound, Adaptive Mode (in 0.9y-7) is a 100 times more easy to "calibrate". So, if you are new, it is my strong advise to start with that. But, as it seems now, it may even bring the best sound, so you could just stay at it.

Peter

[fzman]

Peter,

I tried your suggestions, and it worked out, once I figured out that Q1 ranges from -4 to +???   my monitor is not very good, and I thought the lowest I could go was 4, and could not for a while figure out how to get it set to 1. special mode did not work at all,

once i figured that out, I was able to get it to be stable at 128 samples, q1=1.  , i set q2 to it's mid-way setting, which balanced a nice natural warmth with good detail and accuracy.  I left q3,4,5 set to 0 so far.  it does take about 12 seconds to start playing a flac file (with lowest compression) from an internal sata drive, and there is a quiet pop noise or two just before the file starts to play, but there are no glitches or pops/ticks once the file is playing.

i did get a few errors, as i was experimenting- engine 4 did not start in expected time..... so i just closed xx and restarted it.  I still have a slight sonic preference for winamp running thru the steve monks ks plug-in, so my goal is to beat that sound with xxhighend.  Are you suggesting that version 7 will work in xp, and sound better than version 6?  Also, what settings only available in the paid version will improve the sound, and is there a way to pay for the full version, and get a refund if it does not work out?

thanks for taking the time to read this and make suggestions.

Mark

[PeterSt]

Well, the only thing I really can say (again) is that you should use y-7 because of its Adaptive Mode. I'll bet you 72 euros that will make "the" difference. haha.

The only real thing of importance in this case that's not in the Demo version is the Core Appointment Schemes (which allow you to find cpu schemes with better SQ). Sadly (and this was unintended) by now, for Kernel Streaming, the Core Appointment settings are important to achieve the ultra low latency. But, if you don't have a really underpowered processor, it won't matter much. So, including this unintended combination, still no refunds.

But please, try y-7 and Adaptive Mode. Let's not bet then, but let me promise you it will get better from it. Ok ?
Peter

[fzman]

am trying 7 now, in adaptive mode,  had to go with 256 samples, with q1=1. sounded a bit dry and edgy, so i am up to q1=12. it is sounding better.  the main issue i have, after brief listening, is that the soundstage is wide, but very shallow - there is less layering of depth, than with my winamp configuration.  i cannot find a data file to report on, but cpu usage is at 0% most of the time, and goes up to 3-4% for a short time -- when loading a large flac file it gets as high as 50%.

also, it stops playing after a file from the playlist ends, but i would like to play the whole list in order.  also, when it has an album with 10 or more tracks, it puts track 10 before track 01.

confusing.

[PeterSt]

Hi Mark,

It looks to me (not sure though) that you are using XXHihgEnd in Attended mode. Wrong ! For the best sound quality you should use Unattended mode (see checkbox at the bottom). But don't forget to setup autoHotkey first, or leave the Services On (which is again bad for good sound).

The fact that playback stops after a track (which to me indicates your Attended mode) should be coming from an underpowered cpu; can that be the case ? Anyway, please use Unattended, and you will be surprised.

The tracks not sorting correctly will be because of the track numbers in there not being 01, 02, 03, but 1, 2, 3 (and I know a(n official) download site which presents them like that). Notice that this automatically implies a wrong alphabetical sorting sequence, like 1, 10, 2, 3.
This is solved when you use cue sheets, or -for example- when the FLAC files contain the normal numbering. So all 'n all I guess you have a special situation at hand (because I really never see complaints about it), with the missing cue sheet as the most obvious. Notice that the cue sheet (.cue) must be in the same folder as the tracks are. Note : If you recognize that you are just doing this, than don't bother much, but tell me you do, and I will look into it. I mean, I can be doing things wrong, and I estimate this is a not much used solution (so, not really tested, so to say).
In any case, renaming the track numbers to 01, 02, 03 etc. will solve it.

Let me know what happens with Unattended !
Peter

[fzman]

i will try unattended tonight--- the flac files are numbered with a leading 0, as in 01 02....   the config i use in dbpower amp is to name the directory artist-album, and the flac files are track number track title.  winamp sorts them correctly, but i will check the tags and see if something is up there.

if i use cue files, which i can do very easily, do i add the cue file to the playlist, and let it find the tracks?

also, the cpu is an intel e7200, using 1 gig of kingston ram, and with the bios tweeks suggested by cics, which means it is underclocked/undervolted.....   I had been using winamp within the cics cmp environment, but since i have switched over to using an external dac, i cannot get the xonar stx card's drivers to use asio via the coax digital output (at least in winamp).  i switched over to using the steve monks ks plugin, and the digital out works flawlessly, and allows me to compare xx to winamp both via ks (so, apples to apples).

I may try to use another sound card, but am inclined to stick to the xonar stx, since it is pci-e, and i have built a nice dual linear psu for it, supplying 12v and 5v, with choke-filtered supplies.  this was a nice improvement via analog outs, compared to powering the card's molex connector via the computer's psu.  i have also done some capacitor bypasses on the dual 12v lines for the p4 processor power feeds from the computer's main psu.

also, the dac i am using (cary xciter dac), internally upsamples to 32/192 (cannot be turned off) - if this gives any ideas as to which settings for the q's may be good to try.

thanks again for the suggestions....

Mark

[PeterSt]

Hmm ... can you show me a screenshot of the Playlist Area with the wrong sort order ? BUT :
Notice that you must test this with selecting an album in the Library Area (just click on the Coverart) and next click the Load button.

Please keep in mind : if you don't use cue files, it is not my intention to start using them. If only the track numbers are in the track name allright. So, something else must be wrong then, and I rather solve *that*. Ok ?


... maybe you were just explaing what you are using (for sound card and all), but nobody is telling you to change ... (or I have missed it )

If you feed the DAC with 16/44.1 theoretically you can go lower with Q1 (Kernel Streaming Special mode) than with 32/176.4, but if I were you I'd still try Arc Prediction (Quad). Or ... or would your DAC resample that to 192 also ? (brrrr)


Ok, one really important thing : you have too few memory. You really must have 2GB ... I am sorry ! ...

Peter

[fzman]

i will try those ideas.  i have been choosing music using the explore button --

i also have 2 2gig ram sticks somewhere, but at one point i listened to the corsair 2g ram vs the 1g kingston, and thought the kingston sounded better, and left it in. 

[nik.d]

Hello all, hello Peter. My first post.
Have built dedicated PC similar to fzman (E7400/mATX mobo/1&2GB RAM) - rest of the system in signature.
Wanted to try XXHE with WinXP SP2 - no success. Getting error message:
"The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0000135). Click OK to terminate the application"
This happens with 2 different mobo's (although very similar, G31 chipset, integrated graphics).
On my other machine (XP SP2 as well, non integrated graphics) XXHE starts w/out complaints.

Any clue?

Thks, George

PS: XXHE -y6 & -y7

[PeterSt]

Hi George, here !

Can this be because you skipped the dot-net install stuff (needed for XP) ? (notice I have no indications for this, but is *is* something XP needs).

Although the Demo version, Install notes and getting an Activation Key is somewhat old maybe, I guess for XP the majority in there is still true.

Can that be it ?
Regards,
Peter

[nik.d]

Can this be because you skipped the dot-net install stuff (needed for XP) ? ...

Yes, and Googling helps as well...

Thank you!

[fzman]

Peter,

I am running with unattended mode now - I did not notice that the settings tab had a scroll bar, and that there were a number of settings I did not see before.  I am just starting to figure out how to add to the playlist from the library tab.  (is there a link with explicit instructions so I am sure I am doing it corrctly, rather than guessing and trial and error?) Things are a bit slow, but I have not yet put the 2 gig corsair ram in yet, but that is easy enough to do.  I noticed also that autohotkeys crashes winamp, so I have to remember to unload and reload it as needed.

I have also turned q2-q5 down to 0, and have backed q1 down to 4, adaptive mode, with 512 for the buffer....  the sound is getting better, and I am closing in on deciding whether to buy or not.  I switch back to winamp to have a comparison, and because I can run it continuously as I am burning in new dac and cables.

I also switched to unattended mode, and that does seem to sound better as well.

Thank you for all your help- I must say that the feedback and assistance are very valuable, and that you are earning your money.

Best,

Mark