VST plugin support for CONEQ technology

[ivo]

Hi Peter,

Are you aware of this:
http://www.realsoundlab.com/eng/technology/description/
This looks really interesting. (BTW, it comes from the city where I live)
I did ask them and they support VST plugin format for audio players. There is possible to add CONEQ VST plugin in foobar2000. Are you planning or thinking on adding VST plugin support for XX someday?

Thanks,
Ivo

[Calibrator]

G'day Ivo and thanks for the link to CONEQ as I was not aware of its existence until you mentioned it.

From reading through their web site and watching the presentation video several times, it appears to me that the technology is aimed at correcting anomolies in monitors/speakers listened to in a near-field sense. In other words, before influences of room. This may be useful in mixing booths, but I imagine it may fall short when listening to speakers from a distance.

One comment I might make though regarding the graphs presented during the demo, was that they looked rather mediocre before correction! Maybe they picked some cheap monitors that demonstrated their correction filters more easily. I would be looking to correct any underlaying flaws in the crossovers etc of said monitors before thinking about external corrections. Kinda like trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear, if you recall that phrase.

I am a strong advocate of a linear frequency response at the listening position, and to that end use the inbuilt parametric equalizer function of the receiver I use ( Integra DHC 9.9 ). Determining what values to set the equalizer to however is not necessarily easy, and it has taken some time to find a tool that allows this to be accomplished relatively easily and effectively. For some time now I have been using ETF ( http://www.etfacoustic.com/ ) to do this. The information and understanding of how things appear and measure from your listening position using a tool such as ETF is invaluable.

I have broached the subject of an inbuilt multiband equalizer with Peter, and is hopefully something this will see light of day at some stage, after he has incorporated all the features he wishes to complete. I think such a feature would be more valuable , and cheaper, than an external plugin of which he has no immediate control. The 140Euro i saw mentioned on one web site for the CONEQ plugin seems a little steep on the surface, compared to other solutions which appear to offer the same ultimate result.

Cheers,

Russ

[PeterSt]

Well, let me answer this like this :

Plugins are not "allowed" because they 180 degree counteract all the good work for good sound quality. However, by now all means are available to incorporate this in one of the preprocessing stages (think of a convolver file) - and this does not hurt at al (only takes time for the processing). Which means creates that file is not important. And of course it must be convoluted into the eventually output stream (which is *not* in there yet).

Contrary to Russ and many others, I don't like such "processing" at all. But then I'm never at the sweet spot, *if* I ever had one. So, and this is OT of course, I am from the leage that says that no sweet spot should be required which *is* very well doable. But as said, this is OT.

Maybe less OT, and possibly more important ... similarly to convolution of room correction (I hope I say this correctly in english) there's also "convolution" of XOver filters. This too will be in XXHighEnd and this too will be applied in some preprocessing stage;
Depending on the number of driver ranges you have in the speaker, this needs as many digital channels. Thus, bass and mid-high in one speaker needs two channels for that one speaker. Bass, mid and high needs 3.
What hardly anyone knows yet is that the Phasure NOS1 will offer 2 x 2 channels 24/192 in the standard DAC (or the normal 2 x 1 (then 24/384) by jumper settings and some 3dB better THD figures) or will offer 2 x 4 channels of 24/192 by means of two connected main DACs (in the same one housing).
I must honestly say this is theory for now because (similarly to what I said elsewhere) it needs new PCBs and I don't have them yet. But all has been worked out for theories and design (it needs special software as well) and it should work.

Ok, I must be feeling a bit "commercial" today.
Peter

[GerardA]

Aha,
that's very interesting, the dac will standardly work as a Crossover?
Then I will have to buy one too, my passive crossover between pre and poweramp makes the preamp necessary, but now...
Will there be an ADC somewhere to play analog realtime through XXHE?

[PeterSt]

Be careful Gerard ... for e.g. 6 channels you'd also need 6 main amp channels ...

Will there be an ADC somewhere to play analog realtime through XXHE?

Yes, you can play your vinyl and stuff it through the DAC !

I'm not sure whether this was a serious question, but there's some ADC thingies on board, yes. It just comes along with the setup. Something like 4 x 24/192. . I must say though, that I never thought of connecting it. Who wants that ? hmm ...

[Eric]

Peter,
will the DAC have balanced output terminals?
And how will the DAC be connected to the PC on the input side?

Cheers,
Eric

[GerardA]

Who wants that ?

Well, people with thousands of lp's and don't have the time to first rip them all to harddisk.
And people who use the same setup for the sound from tv/dvd (through pc).
This way the pc/dac would be the sourceswitchcenter and everything goes through the DAC/XO to (IMC) 4 poweramps.
But don't let this change your plans for now, a lot of people are waiting for version1.

[PeterSt]

will the DAC have balanced output terminals?

Yes. + RCA.

And how will the DAC be connected to the PC on the input side?

Secret. Ok, it's a secret for only now, because of all the difficulties I have (had) with it and I don't want to make you "happy" with a $1000 solution for only this because something else isn't working as planned (and this is merely about unreliable suppliers than about the technical solution).
So it just as well can be the most normal.

[Eric]

I guess my real question is:
with the new DAC, would I still need the FireFace400 for the PC connection?

[PeterSt]

No.

[Telstar]

What hardly anyone knows yet is that the Phasure NOS1 will offer 2 x 2 channels 24/192 in the standard DAC (or the normal 2 x 1 (then 24/384) by jumper settings and some 3dB better THD figures) or will offer 2 x 4 channels of 24/192 by means of two connected main DACs (in the same one housing).
I must honestly say this is theory for now because (similarly to what I said elsewhere) it needs new PCBs and I don't have them yet. But all has been worked out for theories and design (it needs special software as well) and it should work.

I know, i know! 
And i am the one who asked for the 8 channel version... guess why? Exactly to do software crossover for my upcoming diy speakers.

Now withstanding things are not straightforward especially without using VST plugins. A convolutor is cleaner, not as quick to change as a visual plugin such as Ozone, and very laggy (requires high buffer).
Until is implemented within the xxhe software there is currently no other way to do it besides a VST host and VST plugins through asio.
The biggest issue is that sample rate cannot be changed on the fly, it just doesnt work.

Obviously i'm eagerly awaiting for both the dac and the convolutor/XO implemented in xxhe.

[Telstar]

Are you aware of this:
http://www.realsoundlab.com/eng/technology/description/

Do you know how much it costs?

The workshop is similar to audiolense.

[PeterSt]

The biggest issue is that sample rate cannot be changed on the fly, it just doesnt work.

Hi Telstar,

Can you be a bit clearer on this please ? (IOW, I don't get what you're saying here)

Thanks,
Peter

[Telstar]

The biggest issue is that sample rate cannot be changed on the fly, it just doesnt work.

Hi Telstar,

Can you be a bit clearer on this please ? (IOW, I don't get what you're saying here)

Thanks,
Peter

That using an asio VST host does not allow any player to change bitrate and sampling rate on the fly.
This problem won't happen when xxhe will handle FIR filters directly.