Writing .wav files to HDD using a Blu-Ray writer - they sound better to me

[PeterSt]

I'm off for a long weekend away thought so might be next week before I can contact anyone.

G'day Jeffc,

Bailing out, right ? just joking  of course ...

But is my conclusion right that you are using Engine#1 (and other players) to compare ? I think that is dangerous ... Or maybe just not for your purpose. E.g. :
Flac is known to (possibly) sound different because of the real time processing it takes to decompress it. Not exactly your example of course, but Engine#3 is known to take distance of that, because it pre-decompresses, and after that it's just wav-wav comparison.
The real merits are up to you here.

Just wanted to let you know before climbing from your laundry and join the lunatics on bailing out for another Woodstock.

Peter

[Jeffc]

G'day Peter,

Thanks for keeping this light hearted.    Almost packed and ready to chuff off to stay with my folks. Friends are camping nearby so we’ll be hanging with them quite a bit too. My elderly mother has recently slipped into dementia, which based on the symptoms, seems most likely the type described as Binswanger's disease. Could make a joke about this being genetic, in the context of what’s being discussed here, but it's not that funny when you see a loved one go this way, and as there is unfortunately no treatment.

Back to comparing .wav files, I have nothing to gain in attracting flack about this but thought here might be a good place with open-minded folk with top notch HDD playback audio equipment that could pick possible SQ differences perceived by several folk in other circles that have taken the time to listen.

Must fly.

Cheers.. Jeff

[Jeffc]

I'm back 

Nice weekend away but I was kind of hoping that while I was, someone here might have taken up the challenge of comparing the .wavs available for download at VIPeers. I would post some links here but that could get me into trouble with the copyright police. Best message me.

Surely you guys comparing .wav files played from SSD Vs HDD, for example, and hearing SQ differences, should be able pick the same if they exist between .wav files written to HDD with a BluRay writer compared to a CD/DVD writer. Simple test. Might get a reputation as Mr Pushy, sorry , but I am interested in knowing whether others perceive differences too.

cheers.. Jeffc

[PeterSt]

Hi Jeffc,

For my part ... constantly working on it. But, not on the listening;
As you can imagine I can spend my time better on just proving it by measuring, and when I don't measure a difference, these is no difference.
Note that I measure the DAC output, so that really will tell it all.

You really don't want to know all the problems I run into, but I guess that comes along with doing things which officially can't be done. Or weren't done before anyway.

But push as you please; it may even help ...
Peter

[Telstar]

Sooo... my trusty (ahem) samsung dvd-w of my main pc broke. There is where i do all my ripping (i gave up on doing on the dedicated pc since the offline freedb database do NOT WORK at all).

I did some search and the model in the first post is discontinued in the US but still available in Europe (costs around 170€).
My question would be if a similar model (even from the same brand) would rip with the same quality.
It seems being able to write BD disks is the key (and maybe large cache). I wonder if writing hd-dvd is also important.

Spec sceets (in the german site there are all models and more specs):
http://www.lge.com/de/it-produkte/optische-laufwerke/LG-blu-ray-intern-GGWH20L.jsp
http://www.lge.com/de/it-produkte/optische-laufwerke/LG-blu-ray-intern-BH08LS.jsp

The main difference of the new model is the lack of HD-DVD and the faster (8x vs 6x) BD-writing speed, the latter is absolutely irrelevant to me.

Advice is welcome

[Flecko]

Hi everyone,
i can affirm this finding. I was one year away from audio, sold everything because I was nerved by this neurotic feeling you get if you care too much about sound In this time I listened to my Tivoli Model Three most of the time. CD-Playback was done with PC, using Vista and A WASAPI Player. Speaker and Amp was the Tivoli Radio fed by my RME Soundcard. I bought the LG Blueray writer and just threw in a cd without ripping it. I used direct playback. Better highs was my first impression. I was happy and forgot about it because I didn't cared much in that time. Now I am back and build a nice pair of Speakers (Hobby Hifi Platino Highend Version) using a Jungson JA-99C Poweramp a van Look passive pre, a Chord DSC1100 DAC and a Pioneer PD-S06 CD Transport. My computer is connected via Hoer-Wege USB-SPDIF converter (which is far better than my old rme Hammerfall HDSP 9632 SPDIF-out). Now I testet again, with an old file I ripped with my Plextor DVD Burner and now ripped again with the LG Bluerayburner. It is obvious sounding better. Clearer and cleaner highs, more dynamic sound.
It probably might be not only the LG Burner making the difference. Also I used IDE cable on my Plextor, the LG is connected with SATA. Ripping technique still the same (EAC without any hooks in the CD-Drive reading menue). Now I am using windows 7, which is an improvement in playback compared to vista. If it makes a difference if you rip the CD's in w7 I don't know, but it is possible (nothing is impossible in this hobby ). Even the mediaplayer sounds better than the old WASAPI player I used bevor. For XX I can not tell the difference.
Greetings Adrian

[Flecko]

I have to take my statement back. I compared the two files ripped with a plextor dvd-rom and the lg blueray with a software called hex comparison. The files are indentical. There is no difference. So I fooled myself, sorry.
Greetings Adrian

[PeterSt]

Adrian - But that is the whole point ... they *are* identical, but *do* sound different.

I am far away part of this, but what I just said is the base. So nothing new by itself, but the biggest challenge of .. well, all.
And I don't want to talk you into anything. I do want to say though that your argument is no argument. Maybe later is is ...

Peter

[listening]

Try to rip the same track from your new drive again - it may be possible that it sounds different too. I don't ever tried to find the reason, but I'm shure it's not the drive but it's the harddisk. If the specialists are able to recover files even when data are overwritten by special patterns - what could happen with music data if they are stored at different locations on the harddisk? Another aspect are the algorithms for data correction. With ever growing data capacity there are more complex highly specialized algorithms which try to compensate the increasing error rate. There could be an experiment: Rip the data to a NOS harddisk and a modern high capacity harddisk. Will there be a sonic difference? It's speculative but reported sometimes.

Mystical greetz 
Georg 

[PeterSt]

So now we have NOS harddisks, right ?
I must be running behind ...

[listening]

I got one build in an old IBM pc - but DOS and Micropro software occupies 80% of its capacity (10 MByte). Additionally I got a spare one, it's really New Old Stock 

Georg

[Flecko]

I burned the tracks on a cd. They repeat in the form A.B.A.B.A.B.A.B on the disk, so that the influence of the region where the track is burned has no influence in mean. So I sat on my listening position and changed the tracks without moving at all by using my remote. I could not hear any difference. And in the moments when I thought there could be one, I should have checked blood preshure and pulse to compare the tracks scientifically. I think they sound identical. It  makes perfect sense now
Greatings Adrian

[Flecko]

Just to add the information: The LG BlueRay Burner I use is not recomended by me to rip cd's. It is slow (1,2x max!). I bought an old Plextor CD burner (PX-5224A)(1,50€!) and it can rip cd's at 5-7x ( in secure mode ). It also sounds better if the cd is played directly with the cd-rom (closer to the sound of the ripped file).