Windows volume works ??

[Fidelio]

The new DAC is up an running, a fine little box.

One question: is the Windows volume control supposed to work when playing with XXHE? Connected by toslink.

Moreover: the DAC is 16/96 NOS. Playing 16/44.1 material, if I set "DAC is " to 16/96, doubling doesn't work. If I set "DAC is" to 24/96, doubling works. Why? Windows sound control panel is set to 16 bits in both instances.

[PeterSt]

Windows Volume Control : No.

16/44.1 and Doubling : Can not work because the output bit depth is needed to do the Arc Prediction. Notice this is about Double and Arc Prediction. Just Double does work.

Ok ?
Peter

[Fidelio]

Windows Volume Control : No.

I really can't figure out why it works here then. Exclusive mode is checked in Win control panel. What do you think the problem is?

16/44.1 and Doubling : Can not work because the output bit depth is needed to do the Arc Prediction. Notice this is about Double and Arc Prediction. Just Double does work.

I am not talking about Arc Prediction, just doubling. Doubling works here if I set the "DAC is" to 24/96 in XXHE. If I set "DAC is" to 16/96 (which my DAC is), doubling does not work. Weird? Something is wrong here I think.

[PeterSt]

So you say your Windows volume works ?? This is the most most weird. By "guarantee" of Microsoft it should not ...
You are talking about Engine#3 here, right ? Assuming so, are you able to present me all the details possible, for used soundcard, drivers, screenshot of the device settings and stuff ? This really would be news I guess ...


About the Doubling ... DOH ! I just checked it, and you are completely right !
At the 16 bit "DAC Is" setting nothing for "doubling" the sample rate works  (same for "Quattro" for 192 DACs) . Thus, the output stays at 44100. A most stupid bug !
This must be so since the first 0.9y version.

Thank you for noticing and mentioning this Fidelio.
Peter

[Fidelio]

Thanks for your help Peter

My soundcard is an Onkyo Wavio SE-90 PCI, running 5.40b Via Envy24 drivers optically into a 16/96 NOS DAC (TDA1543).

Sound card sample rate is set to "auto", and if I use doubling, the sample rate is correctly specified in the VIA control panel as 88.2. I have to choose bit depth in Win control panel though, here it is set to 16bit. Everything seems to work fine, except the Windows volume control does work.

[PeterSt]

Sound card sample rate is set to "auto", and if I use doubling, the sample rate is correctly specified in the VIA control panel as 88.2.

This part I don't understand. It also seems contradictionary with what you said before, about the Doubling not working (which it indeed does not !). So, how can you obtain an 88.2 in there ? or is it a typo and should you have said 44.1 ?


Then, the setting in that property screen - advanced tab should not matter anything. However, you seem to suggest it does. But does it ?
But, if you did not test this, you really should : choose the 16/96 in there, and look what your envy screen says about that when XX plays. Thus, if XX plays 16/44.1 (no Doubling), Envy should say 44.1 no matter the setting in that Windows screen. In your case, however (Windows volume works) it seems logic to me that the Envy screen shows 96.

Sorry if I sound confusing, but I guess I just am myself about this ...

[Fidelio]

This part I don't understand. It also seems contradictionary with what you said before, about the Doubling not working (which it indeed does not !). So, how can you obtain an 88.2 in there ? or is it a typo and should you have said 44.1 ?

Oh, if I set "DAC is" in XXHE to 24/96, doubling works fine. But that's not the problem.

Then, the setting in that property screen - advanced tab should not matter anything. However, you seem to suggest it does. But does it ?
But, if you did not test this, you really should : choose the 16/96 in there, and look what your envy screen says about that when XX plays. Thus, if XX plays 16/44.1 (no Doubling), Envy should say 44.1 no matter the setting in that Windows screen. In your case, however (Windows volume works) it seems logic to me that the Envy screen shows 96.

If I choose 96 in the VIA control panel, I cannot play 44.1 material with XXHE. I need to either a) set the sample rate in the VIA panel to whatever the file I am playing is, or b) set the sample rate to "auto" in the VIA panel, in which case the rate will change automatically with the file playing. Thus, I cannot play 44.1 material with XXHE when the sample rate is set to 96 in the VIA and the Win control panels.

[PeterSt]

Thus, I cannot play 44.1 material with XXHE when the sample rate is set to 96 in the VIA and the Win control panels.

Yea, but what is the problem with *that* ?? This is perfectly normal. Or you tell the soundcard not to switch sample rates (hence you what you set), or you tell the soundcard to adapt to what it gets (the Auto setting). In the former case XX won't play, because the sample rate doesn't match.

I guess you accidentally turned the problem upsisde down (well, looking at your first post in this topic), while there's actually a bug in XX that doesn't allow the doubling to work with a 16 bit DAC. Thus, set the Envy to Auto, DAC Is to 16/44.1 and Double just keeps on outputting 44.1. This is not to be solved by setting the Envy to 88.2, but it is to be solved by *me* in the software.
I hope this is clear now ?

I also hope it is clear that tweaking (or misleading) XX by setting DAC Is to 24 bits, while it is not (the 1543) will hopelessly worsten the sound. The Arc Prediction is a "delicate" thing, and the very detailed "wave forming" will be completely destroyed when the highest resolution bits are cut off (which is just what will be happening from the Onkyo to the DAC).


In the mean time ... are you sure you are talking about the *Windows* volume, and not about the Envy volume ?

[Fidelio]

Thanks again Peter;

I was just saying that running 44.1 when card is set to 96 does not work as part of the troubleshooting process, this is of no importance. I run it at Auto.

Yes, I am sure that it is the Windows volume that is working and not the VIA volume, although if I attenuate the volume in the VIA control panel, the Windows volume changes along with it; they are identical.

By the way, I went back to the Onkyo card's analogue outputs; they are sooo much more  than the DAC. Windows volume still works though, but with the card's analogue out I supposed this was because the card attenuates its analogue volume by voltage and not digitally.

[PeterSt]

Ok thanks.

But I suspect it is the other way around : It is the Onkyo which allows for the digital attenuation, and it takes the Windows volume along with it. So I guess the Windows volume does nothing, and it is really the Onkyo doing it. Anyway I sure hope it is like that, or otherwise I would be the most disappointed about WASAPI Exclusive mode "touching nothing".
I wouldn't know how to really prove it, but if you can think of something yourself, I'll be happy to learn the results !

Peter