XX volume control - something weird going on

[manisandher]

Great! I'd recommend everyone who currently uses XX's digital attenuation to try this - takes 5 seconds to click on PE and decrease attenuation (i.e. increase volume level) by 3dB.

BUT... I almost guarantee that the sound will become duller. My feeling is that you should stick with it, and adjust other software parameters and/or hardware configs until the balance is restored.

Interested in hearing others' thoughts...

Mani.

[acg]

Yep, PE+3dB sounds different to no PE.  I prefer no PE.

[manisandher]

Yep, PE+3dB sounds different to no PE.  I prefer no PE.

How would you describe the difference?

Mani.

[acg]

Yep, PE+3dB sounds different to no PE.  I prefer no PE.

How would you describe the difference?

Mani.

Well, with PE is more "congested", but that sounds bad which is not necessarily so because it still sounds very nice.  There is more substance, a smoother, thicker sound but what is lost is some dynamics, transients and detail which is replaced by a certain monotony, or lack of diversity of sound. 

I've not spent a great deal of time comparing the two but I have found the difference easiest to hear when listening to electric guitars...think Pink Floyds "Coming Back to Life" from Division Bell with the variation in guitar techniques...I find the difference relatively easy to spot at the start of that track.

Non-PE by contrast is livelier thanks to the dynamics and transients and seems to have more time or space between the notes.  It sounds full to me but not with that hint of bloat and monotony.

Who knows which , if any, is correct?  I just know that in my system as it is at the moment that I prefer the normal VC without PE activated.

[PeterSt]

Well, with PE is more "congested", but that sounds bad which is not necessarily so because it still sounds very nice.  There is more substance, a smoother, thicker sound but what is lost is some dynamics, transients and detail [...]

Hmm ... That would be about 100% my description. One quite important thing :

I am judging other things these days, and at trying PE I right away felt disturbed because it influenced my original listening. So really after 10 seconds I thought I shouldn't do this at this time (and switched it off indeed), but was left with something like the above description anyway. The "congested" would nicely summ it up because for me that was the most jumping at me.
I didn't report it because obviously this hasn't been "listening" at all. But now Anthony tells about the same ... why not admit I heard that too.

Peter

[manisandher]

Well, with PE is more "congested", but that sounds bad which is not necessarily so because it still sounds very nice.  There is more substance, a smoother, thicker sound but what is lost is some dynamics, transients and detail which is replaced by a certain monotony, or lack of diversity of sound.

Hmm ... That would be about 100% my description.

Well, it seems we're all pretty much agreeing:

Peak Extend OFF:
0dB - thick, full sound
-1.5dB (onwards) - much more sparkle and life, but maybe too thin for some material

Peak Extend ON:
0dB - thick, full sound
-1.5dB (onwards) - thick, full sound (exactly the same as 0dB, but slightly quieter, obviously)

My observation remains though that both XX and HQP sound very different at 0dB vs. any level of attenuation... and that this has nothing to do with clipping or the 'sweet spot' of the the DAC. And also that in XX, PE has a similar character to 0dB.

Who knows which , if any, is correct?

Yep, kind of like the vase vs. the face - does PE make the sound 'too congested', or is the sound 'artificially etched' without it? Take your pick and see (hear) what you want to.

It's going to take me a few more weeks to get my little 'vinyl studio' back up and running. Once it is, I intend to compare some needle drops to the original vinyl. I'm hoping that this will give me a clue as to which digital volume setting is the 'most correct'. But even then, I doubt I'll be able to come up with a definitive answer because of so many variables involved (e.g. the transparency of the ADC, etc.).

Mani.

[acg]

Peak Extend OFF:
0dB - thick, full sound
-1.5dB (onwards) - much more sparkle and life, but maybe too thin for some material

Peak Extend ON:
0dB - thick, full sound
-1.5dB (onwards) - thick, full sound (exactly the same as 0dB, but slightly quieter, obviously)

My observation remains though that both XX and HQP sound very different at 0dB vs. any level of attenuation... and that this has nothing to do with clipping or the 'sweet spot' of the the DAC. And also that in XX, PE has a similar character to 0dB.

You are in a unique position to test this Mani given that it sounds like you are wringing every volt from the B'ass by using no attenuation.  Only Peter could tell you how PE changes, or does not change things and if it behaves differently to the normal digital volume control.

I can also see now why you think the more congested sound may be the correct one given that you observe that it has the same sound characteristics as -0dbB.  But that begs the question "does -0dB have the correct sound."

[PeterSt]

Hi,

I recall that I even compared the byte output (after the different means of attenuation) and there was no difference. But maybe this depends on the actualy music (file).

Peter

[manisandher]

I can also see now why you think the more congested sound may be the correct one given that you observe that it has the same sound characteristics as -0dbB.  But that begs the question "does -0dB have the correct sound."

Haha... I had some 'good ears' over here for the weekend, and although we didn't do a detailed listening test, everyone heard more 'sparkle' when I went from 0dB to -1.5dB. One of them thought I had actually increased the volume!

All-in-all, I think my original findings (that 0dB sounds dull and that >0dB attenuation sounds 'better') now stand. Why PE destroys this better sound, I have no idea. In any event, I'm back to no PE.

Mani.