How to...(for dummies)

[juanpmar]

This forum is an excellent method to learn and a rewarding way to share and feel in community. We are many people here, tens of thousands,  most of us are just looking for information, only a few participating actively.

Now that the year begins, allow me a constructive criticism and a petition.

As I say, some of us seem to monopolize the activity of the forum. We should ask why. In my opinion, often the posts are too dark for most and it seems to become a cryptic dialogue between some. It is clear that it´s sometimes necessary to contrast the technical data, but once established an advance should be shared in an easy way with others.  Of course we must thank to these members for their efforts, without them there won´t be a progress. Anyway, I would like to ask them for something more.
Nearly four years ago I published in the forum the post HOW I´VE BUILT MY NEW PC FOR XXHIGHEND AND WHY I´VE CHOSEN THE COMPONENTS, during that time it has had over 100,000 views proving that people need information. Logically things evolve and are falling behind so it is necessary to update somehow the HOW TO in many different areas.

Here comes my petition. It is addressed to those who can contribute with their knowledge and experience. These are requests on how to install or to build step by step in an easy way issues that present some difficulty.
We all know that there are many tutorials in the forum and they are the proof of the enormous effort made by Peter. The aid I ask for is mainly addressed to the other members who have managed developments that are considered relevant.
I also encourage to the other members to ask for what they need to know and to add it to the list of this How to.  I propose doing it in a similar way as the famous books How to....for dummies, but in this case with just a few paragraphs.

This way I am sure that the forum will be more open and participatory.

I´d like to start with the list of things that I personally would like to know better:

How to:

- Install the music on LAN (dynamically stopped / started)

- Install the remote and recommended tablets

- Remove all the fans in the Music PC and different ways to make the Music PC running cool

- Modify the bios to get the best SQ with the NOS1 and the NOS1a

- Substitute the clocks in the USB card and/or in the mb and how to regulate them.

Some of these issues, in fact all, have been treated in one way or the other on this forum, but could be interesting if they could be put together and reorganized in the same place in a simple step by step way.

Thanks in advance to all those who ask for help and to those who give it.

Happy New Year,

Juan

[music33]

I don't post here much, but am an avid reader and have searched through the archives many times trying to connect nuggets of information together.  I would like to add to your suggestion, if possible it would be really good to segment anything around xxhighend software and the computer to the NOS1 or NOS1a.  What might of been true of the NOS1 may not be true for the NOS1a...  It is really hard to differentiate this in the posts over the years.  Perhaps some categories specifically for the NOS1a (e.g. NOS1a - PC and configuration) could be added.

Lastly let me thank everyone here as I find this site to be inspirational as well as the most cutting edge audio site on the web.  I believe over the next few years, this group will push the sound quality even further.  A special thank you to Peter who is the driving force behind all this.

-Dave

[juanpmar]

Hi Dave,

that´s a good idea. Maybe Peter could open a new board in Getting Started and further Tutorials for something like Simple Guides open to the contributions from the forum members.
As you say they could be separated in some different categories like XXHighEnd (although there are many tutorials about it), software (bios settings, Windows settings), hardware (Music PC in general), NOS1>Music PC, NOS1a>Music PC, etc.

Juan

[PeterSt]

Hi Juan and everyone,

Let me first give you some praise for a well through-over post (or topic). And my initial response ? the more decent that topic the more difficult to respond to it with some sense. That is, assumed that some response would be nice, which of course is different from working on the real solution (like more Tutorials).

So much for the mere formal response I had in mind; now comes the brainstorm ...
And just saying : I think it is a requirement that those who clearly feel involved, respond to it explicitly.
No no, no worries, you will see below that I don't know myself much what to do. So a bit of help in sorting that out is appreciated.

While working on the new version I have already noticed that something more is required than the existing Tutorials; I don't mean more Tutorials, but in some different fashion. Therefore it really is so that 3 weeks ago I sorted out some means which makes it doable to begin with to "describe" things. Because that is the point : to me it seems that this can not be done any more. Too much, too complicated, way too time consuming. So trust me, when I now see what's to describe for the new version ... looks impossible to me. So that's why the new means, but say it is no coincidence that someone like you , Juan, sort of asks for similar.
But there is more ...

Say that I myself can see that it has become virtually impossible to be a newbie in here and make some sense out of it all. Today, this starts somewhat by "means" of the all being more quiet now, and what's not quiet is about things so far from most, that you won't know what to do with it or make out of it. People changing MoBo clocks ?
Well, what else is left to do, we could say ...
But this counts for us oldies, and not for the newbies. It also doesn't count for those who feel less secure in self-exploration and who better rely on others. Or who become depended on that ...

Where things really changed in my view, is where version 1.186(-a) of XXHighEnd implied a "best setting for all". So no comments from anyone, just apply it - done. Yes ?
Almost, because there's still the contraints a PC may put on all, and thus the other way around applies : careful with those dials, because they may not work for all. Of course, for those with the 8 years of experience by now, everything works. Would count the same for me. Still though, I would not be able with 100% guarantee what to tell to everybody for settings, so it will always and always work. Best chance, yes, but guarantee, no. And then what ? wll, in my view especially then all get stuck. Easy, because all went quiet, so nothing much to actively learn from (only static stupid reading (attempt)).

I see more than you do, and what I most often see is quite shocking. Nobody ever ever that I witnessed, uses XXHighEnd the same way as I do myself. How the f* is that possible ?
Yes, that's my thinking, and al I learn from it really is that nothing goes by logic sense, no matter I think it will. But this also means that I can not see how people use it with possibly hurdles ... and my means of usage just works OK. So really, one thing I have thought of is enforcing everybody to use XXHighEnd the way I do it myself. Must be doable (the teaching and the usage) ...
Is this important ? Yes I think so, because a workflow in the midst of all what is the most convenient needs a description and all of maybe one week. The reading propably half a day. Practicing with it ... dunno (but less important). So ... deviating from that "one" workflow implies the impossibility to describe it, nor will it be easy to follow. And don't follow this base and ... no dice at all. Yes, I am pretty sure about that. Example :

Since last May I use the Remote (tablet) exclusively. So all this time I am "looking" for enhancements to that, and the new version will be all about that. At stages I get the more "rough" ideas and I add for me required functionality. Can take a few days, and then I start using that. That implies new requirements, so I add those too. Remember, since May. However, at a night like only last night, I write down 4 new topics to apply or solve, those being in today and tonight I will be working with those. May imply another few things to do or solve. It goes on and on. Still this is this one and only workflow - mine. Sadly, this workflow takes such a pile of "base ideas and settings" that already those so far were too hard to describe. Exampe of that : how to set up all so that you can fluently go from a not-remote setup to the remote setup. And you know what ? this is exactly Juan's, say, complaints, because most of that was introduced in 1.186-a already, with in the Release Notes the small note "yet to be described". Nice, because that is a year ago by now. Yes, but when the real work out of this depends on functionality which really hasn't been made really convenient, plus some of the things got working without really knowing how (say Windows quircks), there is nothing much to describe (yet). And it still hasn't been done. Still today all depends on it.

The next thing which happened which made all completely fuzzy already for myself, is the Phasre NOS1a. Yes, not by accident also a subject in this topic. So how to describe a decent "one and only" workflow, while I know that it can only apply to NOS1a owners, and not to those with other D/A converters, including the NOS1 (no "a").
We can well say that some of the nice features in the whole chain, now for a large degree depicted by the more and more elements Phasure incorporates, is killing itself. Understand ? I mean, if someone asks how to go about with a RAMDisk and my initial thoughts are "oh, I can refer to the XXHighEnd PC topic about that" ... then it can't because it takes the installation of IMDisk on that PC for granted. So, true, I can't refer to that topic. I can refer to the more "static" tutorial about that, but now it is such an element only, and hard to see the context and the why etc.
But the XXHighEnd PC just *is* such a means for the better, and I could (commercially) think "so take that and you're done". Similar to "take the NOS1a and you're done". One giant step further : "take the Orelo speakers as well and you're done because now I know for sure you're good with my whatever advice" (FWIW but alas).

It can't work like that.

More to the point perhaps :
What most of you can't see is what a huge amount of time and trials it takes to get something done for real and how many months later it has become impossible to even recall what all has been done to get all where it is. Ehm, over here.

One huge issue I see : people may have stopped to explore themselves because it has become too complicated. The result ? we try to copy what another has explored and has expressed about in the forum. Aha, but *now* there is another problem, because you, apparently, are not able to see the real merits of that. So if you see someone tweaking whatever clocks, you must have it too. And this is the biggest mistake of all, "because" I myself don't want that at all. Yes, this "because" is a strange one of course, but - and again FWIW - you could try to learn from that sheer fact (I don't want it) that it may be nothing for you as well. So while this too was brought up as a subject in this topic, I say it does not exist. Only in between your ears. Take distance of that what you can't apply anyway and listen to music instead ?


As you may have seen, this post consists of two halves; a first which acknowledges that without further good explanations we get a bit stuck by now, and a second which implies that it might not be needed to improve further - so who needs the explanations.
Mixed feelings.

Mixed feelings, but my personal biggest problem is that I see it and am not quite sure how to solve it. What I anyway do not see at all is "lacking" data from others. From myself yes, but I certainly won't say that someone who now ties together a PC in 2014/2015 must describe what he all did. He can, but with the clear notice that all is up to yourself anyway. And do notice the difference, because when I friggeled together such a PC, it took 3 months or so and many parts bought without reason (other than to find out it wouldn't work) and this only happened like that because the PC was not for myself. In other words, describe it formally, and all becomes 100 times more complicated. Really so. All depends on confidence as well, and if you don't have that really, how to tell others what to do. So let's remember (Juan) that your PC found its base in a dozen or more emails between us and that this hopefully gave you a nice confidence to not only proceed with it, but also to express about it extensively.
And you know what ? If today someone asks me (forum or email) about how to put together a nice PC, then my answer is genuinely "I don't know". So that difficult it is, but also that important it is to share what we found anyway, and ...
Deadlock ?

Let me for now conclude that your topic is justified from a "user" point of view, Juan, but that I don't see anyone anywhere to blame, except if it would be me. And then still this is difficult to justify, which I hopefully laid out to some extent in this post.
Possibly out largest enemy is "time" hence how time encourages for progress (some times aggressively) and how data in the forum becomes obsolete without anyone knowing. Or put differently : without even me knowing that it has become explicitly obsolete because it requires to read all through again, which is impossible.

Peter


PS: Do we realize that maybe 90% of people passing by this forum don't even know that XXHighEnd is just playback software and is not dedicated to the NOS1 at all ?
That kind of thing; Sneaks in without us seeing it.

[brunok]

Peter, et al:

Just want to share some quick thoughts.... If I understand correctly, Peter, a major difficulty/problem with the "Dummies"  idea are all the
possible permutations and combinations of approach to the hardware/software of Phasure products, and the inevitable chaos of maintaining standards, etc..

Secondly, while I don't think it's been stated so far, the additional WORK required would add to your list of things to do. We all know you've been living in the ethereal Nether region where you have been granted 30 hour days while we slog through the standard 24 hours; nevertheless even your 30 hour days seem challenging for your considerable work load and all of our expectations.

On the other hand this website, this tombe of work is difficult to navigate for solutions especially in light of the many advances, over these past two years in particular.  A newbie could easily get lost in or confused by which of the evolutionary improvements to implement.  And I also find it difficult at times to find the most current information on a topic.

What to do?

1) Create a list of topics to address; consider working on the most   fundamental "topics" first and put this LIST in a section labeled   2)SUBMISSIONS; where various members can put their own lists.  Ultimately the lists would be combined/distilled down to say, the top 10 topics to tackle first. (this is all done by submission and resubmission until acceptance) 3) Once agreed upon (with you having the final call) submissions for those topics would be submitted by members in the "submissions" section where it would be corporately drafted/redrafted until the wording and info was satisfactory and then put it in the 4)"Dummies" section or whatever you want to call it: "Guides" or "Tutorials", etc..

The bulk of the work load could be done by others, Peter, while you maintain your focus on the issues at hand.

So the "Submissions" section is always changing, always dynamic, whereas the "Guides" section is static:  It changes only infrequently.

Once the top ten issues have been fulfilled a new round of topics could be voted upon (which don't have to fit the bill of next most important, but rather individual interesting topics for example) And the process continues in form.

ESOTERIC TOPICS:  ie. clock rebuild,  or whatever fits this definition could be discussed under a section entitled , Esoteric Section...with a fitting disclaimer.

VARIATIONS: By this I mean variations in hardware/software attributable to our own unique situations.  For example building a PC for XXHighend--some of us may use a _____MB or memory;  USB2 or USB3; a USB3 card; etc.  After establishing a "Guides" file on such a topic...ie. "building a PC for XXHighend" a VARIATIONS note could be added at the tail end of the guide listing the "one" variable and designating those members who have chosen such a direction.  And of course stating what the "perceived" difference in sound is like.  These "variations" too would first be put in the submissions section until finally added to the body of the topic in the Guides section.

Regards,
brunok

[michaeljeger]

I like your proposal "esoteric" a lot 

Here is definitely metaphysics at work.

Ha Ha

Cheers, Michael

[PeterSt]

After reading your post Bruno (thank you !), I was thinking of this :

I run another forum and this contains a board "Useful Topics". See below (a bit Dutch but alas);

This board contains topics with functional names like for example the one where the mouse pointer is at. "Useful SEPA topics". Its contents you see in the right hand side, and that again contains a couple of links to the (new) SEPA systems of payment. Each of those links directs to a normal topic with "by us" written content.

We let emerge a useful topic mostly right on the spot when the native topic we direct to just was created. Could be a manual to some important new function.

I can't say / detect that this board is observed explicitly by users, but I can say for 100% sure that we ourselves use it for directing (new) users with a question while we know the answer is in there. This is not different from me in Phasure directing to a XXHighEnd PC topic etc. etc., BUT this requires the question first. And I am sure this question is not even asked 99 of 100 times.

I can envision a separate "chapter" in the Tutorials section named "Useful Topics" which in there allows for sorting it the way we want. However, not sure yet how one topic could be / should be higher up in the list than another, but anyway it is possible. See second screenshot below and envision the "Getting Started" to be "Useful Topics" and the "paragraphs" in there denoting such useful topics, each such a topic always redirecting to an existing topic (or more of them) with content.

If this is a good idea, then the "useful topics" (including their name and all) should be created by *you*. So just something you regard(ed) useful at some stage or of which you know you observe it regularly. I can hardly do that because I assume all to be clear, while no such thing is in order in practice. And to give a strange example, if one of you regards the sig from Nick useful (at this moment), then you can even make a topic of it (copy paste his sig in there), put that in chatter BUT next create a useful topic to link to it. Sounds daft perhaps, but I am trying to find some extreme of something you might think it is not allowed (because very personal), while if we don't approach it like this, nothing may come fom it.
And yes it may require some moderation and everybody will be OK with it for sure.

Comments please ! (including "this is worth nothing Peter !")
Thanks ...
Peter

[PeterSt]

Trial :

Useful Topics (add yourself !)

[juanpmar]

Thank you, Bruno and Peter. I think the idea is taking shape and I think it is a good base to start with. Now is the time to contribute by all.

I'm not sure if would be useful but let me suggest an application that includes questions and answers and ranks them according to repetition. It is called Appgree.

What is Appgree: http://www.appgree.com/what-is-appgree/

What is Appgree Social for?: http://www.appgree.com/what-is-appgree-social-for/

The problem with Appgree is that one needs to be connected at any given time and for some time. Maybe that's not as easy or maybe yes. What I know is that here in Spain a new party,  Podemos,  use this application to know the opinion of people on certain issues.

Regards,
Juan

[juanpmar]

With Appgree you also can create your channel and use it with your mobil:

http://www.appgree.com/create-channel/


Juan

[juanpmar]

Peter, probably Appgree it is not a good idea or better said it is not useful here, I talked about it because it is a way to know what it is important for the "majority" of people (a majority based in the people that participate at a given moment) and a method to put up in the list the relevant issues. Complicated anyway to be useful here, I guess.

I don´t know if I understand well your proposition, is it only a way to organize the subjects that are already treated in the forum making it easier to find them? or also opens a door to put new topics to give an answer to the questions?. I mean, e.g. if I want to know How to install the music on LAN (dynamically stopped / started) in your way this question will be re-directed to a link where this question is already treated in a way or another. What I was asking for was really a simpler way, someone ask and someone who knows about it gives an answer in a way as simple as possible. Of course both ways could be complementary and used at the same time, a direct link to what is already treated in the forum and a link to new answer/s in the way of How to...for dummies or whatever it is called.

Regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

Peter, probably Appgree it is not a good idea or better said it is not useful here, I talked about it because it is a way to know what it is important for the "majority" of people (a majority based in the people that participate at a given moment) and a method to put up in the list the relevant issues. Complicated anyway to be useful here, I guess.

Yes, looked at it and indeed didn't see it much.

[PeterSt]

I don´t know if I understand well your proposition, is it only a way to organize the subjects that are already treated in the forum making it easier to find them? or also opens a door to put new topics to give an answer to the questions?. I mean, e.g. if I want to know How to install the music on LAN (dynamically stopped / started) in your way this question will be re-directed to a link where this question is already treated in a way or another. What I was asking for was really a simpler way, someone ask and someone who knows about it gives an answer in a way as simple as possible.

Juan, now you are funny. I mean, go ahead and ask the question. What will happen is this :

1. Nobody answers in the first place.
2. So I must do this myself, which
3. implies that I will make a tutorial for it. Done.

or

1. Someone attempts to answer the question.
2. So you suggest to put this right in some Useful Topic stuff.
3. But the answer wan't a proper answer and there you go.

In the realf of how you see it (if I interpret that correctly) it *has* to go like this :

1. The question is aksed;
2. Someone answers but it is not the best answer (yet).
3. 6 posts later it's worked out and we can (all) agree it works.
4. Put a link to that in Useful Topics.

or

1. Juan found out how to make a nice connection such and so and he posts about it.
2. Someone thinks this is useful and he puts it in Useful Topics. Done.

And later :
1. Mr XYZ finds a better means and he puts that to the forum;
2. The already existing Useful Topic about it is amended and the link in there is replaced by a new one.


Do notice that the 3 example topics in there at this moment already show about all of this, if you observe carefully.

Now I am going to read your post one time more ... haha
Peter

[PeterSt]

So Juan, now put in somewhat other words :

What you like to see happening can only happen in a virtual (unreal) world. And if not, it would have been there already. Meaning :

Your "dummy" etc. explanations are already there, in the current Tutorials. The mistake you probably (?) make is that you still "require" the e.g. LAN thing to be in there, while I already told that I didn't even work that out myself (albeit I have it working to satisfaction of course).
In the end it is easy (and never forget this) : it is super clear that I can not do all these things because at some stage it becomes too much of it. Now watch out :

What you (all) don't know, but I do, is that exactly this LAN example has been worked out fairly explicitly by one person participating in this forum. For his own reminder : it went the same as now with you Juan, I was asked by PM how to do it. My answer : too bad no time, and I am not going to lay it out for your eyes only, so wait.
And so he did it himself.
Where is HIS outlay in this forum ?

So you see, if people are going to think that I will do all anyway so they can nicely listen to some music, then bad luck because now nothing is going to happen. This, while it could if only more would contribute.
So am I asking ? NO. But you do yourself.

And so we are back to the merit of your first post in this topic, and it is only that the wording you used is more fuzzy. As said earlier - unless you were referring to me myself because then your messages were justified (and I mean this). But if you already don't think the same as I do in the first place, then I will now think on behalf of you and I just rephrased all.

Point is and remains : It is all not as simple as this and I hope to have explained that in my first post in here. So I can blame the LAN guy for actually still not participating in this very topic, but I can just as well (and easily think) that it was as difficult for him to get it working to satisfaction as it was for myself. And this, taking into account ALL you can run into, of which half of it I don't understand myself at that moment BUT I get it running.

So now we run in circles and no one is to blame. That is my idea about it.
What remains is that such a lay out takes a day AT LEAST plus (keep this in mind !!) I would need to destroy the whole setup first in order to be able to mimic the setup again for screenshots etc.

[juanpmar]

So Juan, now put in somewhat other words :

What you like to see happening can only happen in a virtual (unreal) world. And if not, it would have been there already. Meaning :

Your "dummy" etc. explanations are already there, in the current Tutorials. The mistake you probably (?) make is that you still "require" the e.g. LAN thing to be in there, while I already told that I didn't even work that out myself (albeit I have it working to satisfaction of course).
In the end it is easy (and never forget this) : it is super clear that I can not do all these things because at some stage it becomes too much of it. Now watch out

What I ask for is not a definitive solution but an imperfect one, a base to work out from. I know that if would be a perfect solution it would be in the Tutorials

So you see, if people are going to think that I will do all anyway so they can nicely listen to some music, then bad luck because now nothing is going to happen. This, while it could if only more would contribute.
So am I asking ? NO. But you do yourself.

This is the reason of my first post, I urge the people to participate and to share their findings even if they are still evolving.

Point is and remains : It is all not as simple as this and I hope to have explained that in my first post in here. So I can blame the LAN guy for actually still not participating in this very topic, but I can just as well (and easily think) that it was as difficult for him to get it working to satisfaction as it was for myself. And this, taking into account ALL you can run into, of which half of it I don't understand myself at that moment BUT I get it running.

So now we run in circles and no one is to blame. That is my idea about it.
What remains is that such a lay out takes a day AT LEAST plus (keep this in mind !!) I would need to destroy the whole setup first in order to be able to mimic the setup again for screenshots etc.

No, I do not blame anyone. Nor I am asking personally to you, Peter, for your contribution to the solution, although of course probably you will have something to say in some moment. The idea is to make a part of the forum more affordable to make the forum more participatory. Allow me to repeat myself, it is not necessary that the solutions found are definitive, e.g. (again) if I ask the question of the LAN, any contribution is welcome, even if the answer does not completely satisfy the question. With the contributions of others, including my own findings, we will approaching to a more complete solution each time.

I think, if I understood you well, that we are saying the same thing.


Now to start with something real. I´m going to put the LAN question to see what happens. If anyone has any questions to ask, go ahead !, start a new topic with it.

Juan