Heads up for Windows 8

[PeterSt]

Hi all,

Because it was mostly me myself complaining about the W8 User Interface, I better tell here that -after using it for a long time- there's not much wrong with it after all;

A first thing people might want is to have their Start button back, the normal Desktop and what not, but once you know how to do things and get where you want to be in fast fashion, it is all very okay. I'm just telling you !
Partly this is related to how the "RTM" version changed to the Consumer Preview version, meaning things improved compared to the Preview version as well.

If someone has a question or complaint about some annoyance, I'd say : ask. I might be able to help out, and when not me, someone else might have the good idea.

I myself am about to listen to it for the first time now, but I can already tell that from pure theory it will be quite better again. Just watch it ...

Peter

[AlainGr]

Hi Peter,

This is quite encouraging I tried a few times, but after facing some problems and being unable to overcome them, I reverted to Windows 7. Now that I read (yes, I read ha ha !) about your instructions to access Windows 8 wonders, I am telling myself that this could be the time to try again

Alain

[CoenP]

Why bother if you're allready on win7?

This looks like a typical version to skip. Maybe win9 will have a start button again  .

Regards, Coen

[charliemb]

I heard that the Microsoft guy that was responsible for the Start button got fired.  He was wrong.  I think MS 8 will soon have the start button.

[AlainGr]

Hi Peter,

I have tried Windows 8 again to see how I would be able to make it work with XXHE. 

This time, with your help, I was able to get rid of the annoying message mentioning that the UAC was not OK (I applied the hack in the registry, as suggested).

After this, I was unable to drag and drop songs in XXHE, but finally could... By pressing the user predefined adjustments (that were empty, since I don't use them). What sequence ? I don't know, but I did this repeatedly and it works...

I don't have a clue how to shutdown or restart the music PC while using RDC ? There was a way with W7, but not this time. If I use another piece of software (like Thightvnc), then I can.

I can't install the bluetooth software = compatibility problem. I tried compatibility mode for Windows 7, Vista SP2, Vista SP1, even XP... No way to install it...

I have not tried it this time, but I remember that minimizing the OS was giving a blank screen (no display after reboot), so I did not attempt to go this far for now... 

So this is where I am at the moment. The sound is good, the latency seems naturally better than with W7, so it looks very promising

Regards,

Alain

[PeterSt]

Ya well eh, uhm ... Alain,

Since I tend to solve everything, I figured to post in real time fashion what to do. This is how the two "Tutorial" topics emerged. But then I got stuck on the NOS1 driver, which was totally unexpected. Similar, I guess, for the Bluetooth driver. Why ? I have NO clue. There shouldn't be any reason. But ...

MS so stupidly changed the UAC rights. This is (I think) to disallow Metro applications to run on the normal PC (which wouldn't work anyway, so it's just a protection) and here things get wild. You just gave the example about the dragging of files;

When Vista came about I got crazy from it for many months. You out there never noticed because it was solved by the way XXHighEnd is fired (and that includes the UAC thing again), but inherently this is all still the same : you can't drag files from lower rights applications to higher rights applications. I didn't notice your culprit yet (I just didn't try), but that will be it. So, when you apply all as you did before, it now must be so that XXHighEnd has higher rights than an Explorer instance. Possibly this can be solved by starting Explorer as Administrator.

Anyway, the upcoming week I have to consult a couple of people to see what's up with my NOS1 driver; maybe I learn something from there.
The Bluetooth driver I must look into as well.

About shutting up Windows from an RDC connection under W7 ... how did you do that ? I don't think I could ever do that. Not with normal RDC. Reboot yes - through XXHighEnd.

Summarized, I thought to find my ways all the way through within one day, but got stuck with my own incapability of ever playing something.

Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

I can't install the bluetooth software = compatibility problem. I tried compatibility mode for Windows 7, Vista SP2, Vista SP1, even XP... No way to install it...

Regarding my earlier response ... something is strange;
I now realize that I am using the Bluetooth driver on the Windows 8 Consumer Preview since last February ! But indeed, on the RTM version it won't install ...

[PeterSt]

1.5 hours further ...

The dongle you have allows for working without additional drivers in Windows 8 ...

With a LOT of hassle I managed to pair with my W8 Consumer Preview laptop; I can't repeat what I all did, but one of the culprits is that on the W8 RTM machine there's this 2 second popup in the upper right corner to "tap there" in order to obtain the connection (or pairing). And without notice you are too late to ever tap that. What's also confusing is that sometimes (or a first time only) you will be reverted to the Metro desktop and have to proceed from there, while in other situations you are allowed to remain in the Change Adapter Settings screen as we are used to.
Then a pairing number may appear but it won't on the laptop, and *that* I think was caused because the laptop needed a reboot first.
Anyway, at last I managed, until my laptop gave up (it shut down) right after the pairing; this is because the USB ports have worn out or something (this is something I already knew).

At this stage I gave up. But it sure looks like it can work with the standard provided drivers now.
Whether it is too wacky to keep consistently running after a connection is made, is something else. I mean, I read enough issues with Bluetooth about this.

A driver for Windows 8 which officially come with the dongles seem not to exist ... "But it should work" is what is said. well, that not.

Peter

[AlainGr]

Ya well eh, uhm ... Alain,

Since I tend to solve everything, I figured to post in real time fashion what to do. This is how the two "Tutorial" topics emerged. But then I got stuck on the NOS1 driver, which was totally unexpected. Similar, I guess, for the Bluetooth driver. Why ? I have NO clue. There shouldn't be any reason. But ...

It must be quite frustrating having to redo things that were perfectly working before. I am with you on this...

When Vista came about I got crazy from it for many months. You out there never noticed because it was solved by the way XXHighEnd is fired (and that includes the UAC thing again), but inherently this is all still the same : you can't drag files from lower rights applications to higher rights applications. I didn't notice your culprit yet (I just didn't try), but that will be it. So, when you apply all as you did before, it now must be so that XXHighEnd has higher rights than an Explorer instance. Possibly this can be solved by starting Explorer as Administrator.

I have to admit that I also tried this with the administrator user, but I got the same problem...

About shutting up Windows from an RDC connection under W7 ... how did you do that ? I don't think I could ever do that. Not with normal RDC. Reboot yes - through XXHighEnd.

I can assure you that it is possible with W7 (not W8) to shutdown... I am sorry I have removed W7 for W8, otherwise I would have taken a snapshot of the option... My memory is not that good, but the option right over the power button that only allows "Disconnect" through RDC in the start menu triggers a screen where the power button has more choices... Let me know if you don't find it, I will restore W7 to show...

Regards,

Alain

[AlainGr]

1.5 hours further ...

The dongle you have allows for working without additional drivers in Windows 8 ...

With a LOT of hassle I managed to pair with my W8 Consumer Preview laptop; I can't repeat what I all did, but one of the culprits is that on the W8 RTM machine there's this 2 second popup in the upper right corner to "tap there" in order to obtain the connection (or pairing). And without notice you are too late to ever tap that. What's also confusing is that sometimes (or a first time only) you will be reverted to the Metro desktop and have to proceed from there, while in other situations you are allowed to remain in the Change Adapter Settings screen as we are used to.
Then a pairing number may appear but it won't on the laptop, and *that* I think was caused because the laptop needed a reboot first.
Anyway, at last I managed, until my laptop gave up (it shut down) right after the pairing; this is because the USB ports have worn out or something (this is something I already knew).

At this stage I gave up. But it sure looks like it can work with the standard provided drivers now.
Whether it is too wacky to keep consistently running after a connection is made, is something else. I mean, I read enough issues with Bluetooth about this.

A driver for Windows 8 which officially come with the dongles seem not to exist ... "But it should work" is what is said. well, that not.

Peter

Well yes, W8 installs a driver for the bluetooth, but I can't connect with RDC... On the music pc (the distant computer), there is no "Control" choice where we could authorize some more options.. And the choices I see from the calling PC under "Control" are less than they were before...

For sure the executable that we have for W7 is much more complete than the driver installed with W8.

For the moment, I use ThightVNC to get more familiar with the differences, even if it means "trouble"

I will report anything that could be useful... Well I hope it will be

Thanks and regards,

Alain

[PeterSt]

Let me know if you don't find it, I will restore W7 to show...

Don't you dare !
It is not important at all Alain. Well, maybe for W8 it is for those who are usd to it, but I don't pretend that I will be able to tweak such a thing. Then some button in XXHighEnd can do the job far more easy. That is only minutes of work.

Thanks,
Peter


PS: Why don't you make a dual boot of it all ?

[AlainGr]

PS: Why don't you make a dual boot of it all ?

I could but when I normally switch from one OS to another, I generally do not go back, unless there are too many problems. At the present time I am quite satisfied with the SQ I have with W8 now that I have it activated and working. For the moment

Alain

[PeterSt]

Alain, allow me :

I was annoyed by the fact that there is no "Start" button at all, so I looked for workarounds and I fell on this:
http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/

It allows to skip the metro UI and not need to go through it.

I quoted this from a PM you sent me, and it is exactly what I tried to challenge for. That's wy the quote.

a. A 100 of these alternate Startbutton programs exist (this may be the best and it is free) - up to the complete normal behaviour of W7 (with some anomalies);
b. I myself really don't see (anymore) why it would be necessary to have a Startbutton/StartMenu.
But :
c. It needs some "tricks" to do what you were used to.

If you rightclick on the Metro Desktop there will be this "All Apps" button/icon at the bottom. That shows the contents of your Startmenu. But, IMO in better fashion, because with the old one you had to find your ways, while here all is listed in structured fashion and without needing to open sub folders etc.

What you will be in lack of most, is the direct access to stuff you were used to. Like the Run command. Well, look in that "All Apps" screen, and see that the Run Command is just an app in there too. Now, rightclick it, and see the choice at the bottom to pin it to the Taskbar.
This is not so obvious when you try to force your ways in the Metro Desktop ...

Each "app" which is pinned to the Taskbar, will show up in the normal Desktop (the large icon in the Metro Desktop). So, click that and you have your normal Desktop, but the Run command is an icon in the Taskbar now. Just like you are used to from the Explorer (etc.) icon.

A first "app" you will want to pin like this is the Control Panel. You can do it with everything.
If it becomes too busy in the Taskbar, drag the icons to the (normal) Desktop.

Your goal will be to stay out of the Metro interface, and then I mean stuff like for Devices. Maybe we will get used to it, but I myself sure don't. So, "cause" a Device Manager icon to be on the normal Desktop, which btw can be accessed from Explorer and rightclick Computer - Properties.

Sometimes it needs a bit learning how to stay out that Metro interface, like with my Bluetooth example. But we will get there or get used to it.

Ctrl-Alt-Del is a convenient one, because it brings us to shutting off the PC (or Restart). Don't know this one and you will be annoyed already.

Use CapsLock twice to log in, instead of that stupid necessary mouse movement otherwise (man, I couldn't even guess how to log in at first).

When you are in the normal Desktop you may run into the desire of "Send to the Desktop". Not there eh ? no, but there's a Pin to Start now. Yea, well, that makes it turn up in the Metro Desktop only. But wait, in there you can right click it again and pin to the Taskbar like described. And then you have it after all in the normal Desktop.

There's more ...

What about a boot time of 10 seconds ?

Summarized, we really shouldn't reject it, just because it looks different. Find our ways is what we have to do.
And the potential for SQ ? ha, just wait. Not only right out of the box, but ... wait.

Peter

[AlainGr]

No problem Peter and I understand that adding services or processes will not help what we are aiming for (this program I suggested is an example). With time, critices will leave the place for appraisals, but in the meantime, it can be a PITA to go back and forth between the 2 interfaces, where one of them is more oriented towards a touch screen from a tablet than an headless desktop controlled through another PC. Add to this that now we have to learn shortcut keys and then we have 2 different techniques to learn. This will not be accessible to every people. Sometimes I find making new presentations not to be very user friendly. For marketing purpose maybe it is good, but not for ergonomics. Isn't a product supposed to be easy... ?

But enough of this. I know you have more important challenges to resolve

Thanks.

Alain