Are you saying you have bit-identical tracks that 'sound' different?

An example would be most welcome....

Installing 'raw' W7 is the best way to really appreciate how much SP1 RC improves on things.
'Normal' W7 (Windows Update turned on) already contains a number of fixes so difference is less...

Hi Chriss,

Peter pretty much answered your question - I can only add that jplay experiment is meant to demonstrate  & get feedback on so far unused software techniques that apparently (as everyone so far is attesting) have a positive effect on SQ. I never expected it to sound as good as it does and as I spent only a week or so on it I think you'll understand why it may not work all the time.

Having said that, I am myself annoyed when this happens (e.g. on my 'dev setup') and maybe I will look into fixing this (which is interesting to me as, in a sense, the fix will benefit SQ) but I have some other priorities on my mind at the moment so there are no promises...

In the meantime, if you are interested in a 'quick fix', have a look at my 'audio-only vLited Vista' post - I played many tracks on that setup and never encountered this annoying Windows issue.... (similar steps can be taken with Win7 if you prefer that OS: just keep in mind that 'less running processes = less chance of memory fragmentation'...)
 

Uh, uh - I should have gone with my gut instinct about that 'more at ease' part.....

Believe it or not, I actually planned to change that setting to Background directly in latest jplay: I decided against it as setting & reverting back whatever user had before (there are a few more possibilities besides Foreground/Background) meant manipulating Registry which means I'd be messing with users machine and I don't like that..... Even worse, I would be manipulating a setting that affects ALL processes! No way in hell....

But, as chance would have it, I am now in the process of testing a new tweak specifically targeting Windows 7 & 2008R2 users and which (surprise, surprise) is going to be yet another first among _any_ PC audio players 

As I was perusing needed literature I also read some parts on these 'Priority' settings which is important to understand in order to 'predict' the impact of this new tweak. Long story short:

I think I can now see a rather plausible theoretical reason why JPlay should preferably be run with Background setting!

Uh, oh, ah -  Does that sound like yet another controversy? 
Betcha! 

In fact, in the new episode of "JPlayer Controversy" series I will also reveal how you can push Windows to the MAX (in terms of making it 'sweat' the most, LOL) so, once again, you can be the judge for yourself and decide what/if these mysterious 'Priority settings' can do for SQ! (and test it very easily too    )

Which one is 'better' I don't know: I think e.g. Marcin definitely prefers Programs (right?)

In principle, this shouldn't have an effect - However, it IS messing around with _very_ important parts in a running system as opposed to Background setting which leaves things more 'at ease' so to say

Personally, as I also write & test code for JPlay I absolutely need a system that is as 'predictable' as possible - hence my preference for Background.   

To answer what's best for XX I also don't know - maybe Peter will answer.

I can only say that, in principle, because of a different design approach and especially when certain settings are used XX will be definitely affected more than jplay - this however does not imply anything as, for example, certain XX settings intentionally make things even more non-'predictable' yet there are people who prefer SQ precisely with such settings!

Long story short: This depends on too many variables so it's best to try for yourself and make your own decision

Flecko: Thank you for your observations!

Was it done before you found jumpers to disable oversampling or after?
And could I bug you for 32 vs 64 bit test?

I am persistent because I like to have things double & triple-checked before making conclusions - call me paranoid    
I'm well aware of unfortunate sh*t Windows is doing to samples in Shared mode - that one does not require multiple DACs to check 

Thanks for clarifications Mani!

BTW - Still unable to access command prompt from RAMDisk? Does jplay work if you simply double-click play.bat from Explorer?

Per,


Huh -That just may not be possible

But try this:
http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/tools/13970.html

And some small info on how to use it:
http://ben.versionzero.org/wiki/Cmd:ntrights

Note you not only need Administrator rights but you may need to turn-off UAC.

I have never tried this so no guarantees....

Excellent point Peter!

If DAC is oversampling, then JPlay's output (a 'pure' native 44.1kHz) will be utterly destroyed!
(for example, 44.1 might get converted to 96kHz in DAC which is a _very_ hard thing to do right and almost impossible to do both _right_ AND in _real time_!)

And if same track is played with XX using Arc Prediction then DAC might say, ah, a 96kHz stream here:Good, I don't have to oversample I'll just play it....

Which obviously means that comparison is not exactly OK but nevermind - As I said, keep the opinions coming: the only way to make reasonable conclusions is to have _more_ opinions!

(Or, turn off Arc Prediction in XX and try again  )


My DAC is only pure native 16/44.1 (Audio Note) so I can't test this but maybe somebody with 96kHz or 192kHz can try following:
set DAC to its maximum (e.g. 192kHz) and try JPlay: does it fail reporting format is not supported? Then look in Sound Panel and check which format is selected as default (is it 44.1 or 96kHz?) Try changing the format and then try again.
(also, check if your DAC maybe has a way to 'turn off' oversampling? )

Peter wrote:

It is very, _very_ easy to misinterpret someone thoughts when there is no eye contact and only letters on the screen - I'm afraid that just happened between you two guys but please let's carry on as Peter suggests:
Please keep your impressions coming: No matter what settings or amps or whatever!

In the end: This is only about increasing our enjoyment of music!

I bet you all it's not only Peter who is following changes in jplayer and looking for new ideas The more there are - the better! Maybe somebody will get a completely new angle and make a player that blows both XX & JPlayer out of the water - Great!
I personally don't care 'which player is better' as long as I enjoy how it sounds!


And let's keep in mind that, after all, some people will always like transistors and some will never switch from tubes.
Some are 100% digital and yet others won't touch anything but Vinyl.
Some like BMW, others Audi, and yet others Mercedes (poor chaps )
Some like blondes, some brunettes, and others reds... (and some like them all   )

Is it then crazy to suggest that some may prefer WASAPI & others KS?

I honestly don't believe there is such a thing as 'absolute best' in anything, much less audio.

My hope with this little 'JPlayer controversy' is to push the limits to the point where it will be up to personal tastes!

And then we can make our own Arsenal vs Manchester United teams and really fight it out!  

Keep enjoying the music! (and also: guys, apart from Marcin who clearly prefers 64-bit (and I tend to agree) there still are no other opinions on 32 vs 64bits....)

Ah, well, you should be able to increase buffer to 2048 in same way - Don't believe there will be much difference though...

BTW: Do you have system priority set to Programs or Background? (Mani, same question for you?)

Surprised in what way?
If you'd like to change buffer size simply type jplay (from command prompt) and then edit play.bat accordingly - seems it can go down to 128 on my Vista 64 setup....

Nick - What do see when you right-click your 'loudspeaker' icon in taskbar and select 'Playback Devices'? Is Hi-Face labeled as 'Default'? If not, right-click and say 'Set as default'. See Capture1.
If it is, click 'Advanced' and make sure sampling freq is set to 44,100 (does not matter if it's 16 or 24 bits) See Capture2.

EDIT - Also see if 44.1 is checked as 'Supported Format' - Capture3

Let us know what you find!

Marcin wrote:
Goon-heaven wrote:
Peter wrote:

Wow - thanks guys!
I implemented these latest findings just yesterday and have not slept at all last night: it may sound crazy (well, it IS crazy) but I just couldn't get myself to stop listening!
I thought I had too much wine (again ) so your fantastic feedback is mucho appreciated! Enjoy the music!