XXHighEnd

Dear Peter,

I tried these steps without much luck. RDC (both iOS and another windows10 machine) with Unattended play seems reeking havoc with the whole machine. Once unattended play is initiated, the following happens:

1. RDC connection is promptly disconnected without any hope to reconnect.

2. XXOSK disappears

3. The track continues to play until finish but system is not waking up

4. Mouse and keyboard lost connections to PC.

5. Once force-rebooted and open XXHE, error message "MemOrg error... try turn off Garbage Collecting" or or "engine #3 not possible..." if you try to play a song.

6. Turn off Garbage Collecting will solve the error. Now Garbage Collecting can be turned back on without any problem.

7. If XXHE is in Normal OS state and Minimize OS is clicked, error messages something like "not possible with XP.."

8. Most likely the machine needs to be power down, reboot, sometimes reboot two times, and deal with "MemOrg" "Garbage collecting" message once more to get system back to normal.

So for now I am OK with PS2 connections with Unattended, which seem more "invisible" to both PC system and SQ.

Best,
Zheng

Hello Zheng,

First off, for some W10 OSes it won't (miraculously) work in Normal OS. So best is to try this in MinOS in the first place.

Then, if you press Clear and the Playlist Area is emptied, the OS version is shown. Is this WINNT32 in your case ? I think so. I that case something else went wrong earlier on, and XXHighEnd can not detect your OS properly any more and it will be the reason that nothing works properly any more. Now :

(I assume XXHighEnd 2.09)

In your XX folder there are OSIs*.tss files. Find the OSIsW10.tss and rename that to OSIsW10.tst
Now you should see "some" W10 version again in the Cleared Playlist Area and from there you should be able to boot into MinOS and of course have activated "Use Remote Desktop" in XXHighEnd's Settings.

I think it can be so that when you successfully could play Unattendedly in MinOS (regardless RDC) and bring up XXHighEnd, you can rename the file back to .tss and you can reboot to see that now all is fine again (and W14393.0 will show in the Cleared Playlist Area). But if not, rename back to .tst and live with it ... (I have no better idea at this moment).

Anyway, does the RDC now work ?
Please notice that to have the RDC working is nothing special if you only try it in MinOS and refer to the Audio PC by means of IP address and not the PC Name.

Let me know whether it helps !
Regards,
Peter

Thanks Peter! I know I am going to have a fun night. It is definitely part of Charm of XXHE that there are so many places that can go wrong and there are as many ways to fix them. If you get it right eventually, rewards are huge. Will report back. ;)

It's always unexpected fun! When I turned on the machine I found that xxhe lost activation. Too much mangling I guess.

1. Replaced xxhe and xxdata folders with a saved copy of 208d.
2. Re-copied over 209 updating files without "changeWP.exe" to avoid trouble.
3. Everything seemed fine both in normal OS and minimized.
4. Unfortunately "MemOrg #2..." Occurred again but after turning off garbage and turn back on trick seemed to be working.
5. Got to minimized OS state, RD started working. Playing tracks, stop, playing again. Great. THEN on iPad I turned on Unattended, hit play. My iPad immediately lost connection to xxhe player machine. Music started playing. Keyboard and mouse to xxhe machine no longer work. I had to wait music to finish. Xxhe machine popped back to Windows logon screen and keyboard and mouse started to work. At this point iPad can connect to it again. Also tried both "Persist" on and off, and behavior was same.

I wonder if I need to activate Wake-on LAN function in BIOS if there's one? Will report back again.

Best,
Zheng

Hi Peter,
1.  Solved problems with ChangeWP.exe, Reg86.exe by running them directly in the xxhe folder, then uncheck Always... Before Run.

2. RD operation seems buggy. I was able to get to unattended play without being disconnected for a while but got freezed in the end on both iPad and xxhe machine. Reqires force reboot.

3. I started to think it might be OS 10586's problem?!

4. Still got occasional "MemOrg 02..." and "Turn off Garbage..." messages. I might have to live with garbage collecting Off :(

Best,
Zheng

Hi again Zheng,



Can you imagine that I have no idea what you are talking about here ?
I must have missed posts about it !

"By running them directly in the xxhe folder" ???
-> Is there anything which should run outside of it ? ... I am not aware of that.
So Yes, if this is your "mangling" then better expect that nothing works ?

I recognize from someone maybe a year ago that he had similar issues with an iPad. But as I recall this was not on the forum (and now we understand right away why it *should* be in the forum). So I can't find that back ...
But it sure was solved in the end.

But others use iPads too. So it has to be a general thing for your setup.
Btw, I think it will be solved n "rough fashion" by not shutting off the LAN at all. You can change this setting while being in MinOS (because of what you must have set in Normal OS for the LAN or otherwise you'd never have a LAN connection).

Best regards,
Peter

PS: I vaguely recall that the iPad issue has been on the forum as well.

Peter,

First good news, this morning I was able to use RD solely with an ipad without monitor, keyboard or mouse in Unattended mode! But during the playing, it was not possible for ipad to communicate anything at all, Alt-x or Alt-s. I had to wait for the track to finish and then after about 10 seconds, ipad resumed RD connection. All this with "Persist" being OFF. (switch "Persist" ON will freeze both RD connection and XXHE PC machine at the end of a playing, I think. Need to try more times to confirm)

The sound of music was the best ever from my meager setup #2. It was focused, warm, open, detailed with vigor. Bass notes became more active and effortless while top frequencies started to melt into the mid range. Song just became more interesting. A glimpse into what is possible.

Now back to other persisting issues. I think I started to make things more complicated but let me explain:


First I need to state that all these issues occured AFTER I started using RD and XXHE machine random freezes when being connected via RD. The issues being error messages "MemOrg 02.. and try turning off Garbage collecting," something about "wrong string.." and later even "not possible in XP," asking permission to run .exe program containing a check box "Always..". which happened after I re-applied 2.09 patch files in my current 2.08d folder that has been updated to 2.09 previously. You are also right about the fix for "XP.." message and display of WIN32 in cleared playlist box (rename xxW10.tss to .tst fixed it and yet to put it back to .tss)

Here is what I found out: during the first run of XXHE after applied the patch files, it will ask for permission to run a few .exe programs. But when the message box is from Win10 style then I just uncheck "Always.." box and hit Run. But the two message boxes (ChangeWP.exe and Reg86.exe) are in XXHE red border styling (see attached pic), the "Run" button does NOT work. Only option it to dismiss it which will result in messy situations.

My work around is to open XXHE folder and directly double-clicked the two program files and then I get a normal Win10 message box where I just uncheck and hit "Run". Next I started XXHE which will start without asking any questions.

I hope this makes some sense to you because for me I just found out which way it will work without understanding the internal workings.  :(

Just saw your latest post regarding an older quote about iPad. It explains what happened to me. But if I close RD session on iPad right after Unattended started, and open new RD session when play completely finished and it works but need to repeat many times to see if its stable...

Best,
Zheng
 

No picture, but it is currently also not possible to post a picture, I just found out !
And I am sure that your picture is important for me.

So something is wrong - working on that ! ...

Peter

Yes for some reason my jpg image uploading was denied.
ZH

I am sending you pics via email.
ZH

Thank you, Zheng.


This will be because you let these pass by at the initial install of XXHighEnd. This is the part with the "10 or so programs may start" (similar) and among them are ChangeWP and Reg86. So if you *there* omit to untick that checkbox, the sh*t will happen forever.
Personally I don't know a way out really, apart from reinstalling XXHighEnd. You will imply the same with renaming SettingsReset.tss to SettingsReset.tst and then restart XXHighEnd.

Now I hope this helps for this part ...

Regards,
Peter

Attachments work again ...

Thus that summarized, with an iPad you can try to leave the RD up front all the time and not start reading the news meanwhile. Anyway, you can test whether it then works, because if not, first something else is the matter.

Regards,
Peter

Hi Peter,
Just for your info that I never had RD troubles during Attended play with iPad focused on current task. All my problems so far (this past 3 days) started because of using Unattended play using iPad. I feel if I use iPad at all, I need to find out a way to reliably play Unattended. Otherwise it seems too much to give up.
Best,
Zheng

... Which is logical because with Attended nothing shuts down except for what was denoted at going from Normal OS to MinOS (if done at all).
It's a world of a difference. Really.

Peter

Here is the pic. ZH

I think I found a work-around to use iPad RD Unattended play in a repeatable and reliable manner and here is how:

1. Start RD session from iPad and play a song Unattended.
2. Immediately while xxhe is still preparing the song, finish RD session on iPad.
3. Let the song play in its entirety. No resuming RD session is possible at this point.
4. After song is finished playing, resume RD session on iPad.
5. One side benefit is xxhe PC is totally left alone: no keyboard/mouse, no monitor, no RD connection while music is playing!
6. Second side benefit with this method is you have to listen to the entire song which really enhance overall music experience.
7. Third side benefit is that you can read on iPad all the Trump news while music is playing. :)

ZH

:rofl:

Zheng, I suddenly think I know what you are doing "wrong";
You have a nice Audio PC, have WiFi connected to it somehow and make a connection to that with your iPad.
"Wrong".

-Paid -> Music Server PC -> Audio PC.

*That* is the idea (the Music Server part controls the Audio PC like you currently do/attempt with your iPad and the iPad does the same as it did but withthe Music Server PC).
The Audio PC is not allowed to support/have WiFi because it is too poor for sound. Besides it is not even supported that a WiFi connecion is to be "dynamical" (unlike the LAN connection, which *is* supported in dynamic fashion). This is due to poor sound otherwise.

So no wonder you can't succeed ...

Peter

PS: We call "Music Server PC" like that, because it can hold the music, so the Audio PC is freed of that too (make it as lean as possible).

OMG I SEE, all this time...
Here is what's puzzling. My audio pc (with XXHE running) has only LAN capability and no wifi at all. My current RD session is just between a wifi connected iPad and LAN connected audio pc!

I do have a music server running with a 4T raid storage and 4T non-raid disk. My audio pc accesses music server via local network on LAN or play directly from its own onboard SSD's temporary music folders.

My question: How does music pc control XXHE on audio pc? Via another RD session? I'm confused but excited...

Best,
Zheng

Hi Zheng,

Maybe I didn't understand your last post, but :


Yes !

iPad -> Wifi -> Router -> Cable -> Music Server PC -> Cable -> Audio PC.

Clear a little ?

Peter

THANKS! you are infinitely patient.

Well this is a good step in right direction, baby steps...
I just did a RD session between audio pc and music pc both connected via LAN. Audio pc is in minized state with LAN, PAN and Persist all ON.

But it behaved just like my iPad-->audio pc. Everything is fine in Attended. But in Unattended playing, network connection lost and so is RD. Not possible to reconnect until the current song is completed and plus 15 seconds. Then I can start a new RD session from music pc.

I tried with PAN off and on, and tried Persist off and on. All behave the same. This is the crunch time! Hope you can point me again in right direction to troubleshoot.

Of course in the meanwhile I can always enjoy my "home-made" iPad-->audio pc "purest connection method", no LAN or Bluetooth, nothing. Just lots of time to enjoy music in its entirety... :)

Best,
Zheng

Peter,
I am wondering if Remote Server Port in xxhe settings needs to be filled. I know the IP but what is Port #? Is it RD port on music server?
ZH

What you see below I use myself. The theoretical improvement for you would be to activate Persist, but it shouldn't be necessary. Remember, set this when in Normal OS and then go to MinOS (AND never test it in Normal OS !).

Peter

Hmm ... No. That is in there for over two years I think, but is for future use. Maybe I only see now that it should be disabled or "hidden". Sorry about this confusion.


You are infinitely eager which makes me eager to help.
But now I have to go, so I will learn later that you managed !
And with that normal PC for remote control it is also the most normal now which is what (almost) everybody uses.

Maybe also briefly examine router (firewall) settings. No wait ... (but Yes, do) ... "we" have the connection direct ! not via the router ! Again :

iPad -> Wifi -> Router -> Cable -> Music Server PC -> Cable -> Audio PC.

This is literal !

Best regards and you will get there !
Peter

Peter,

Is it correct to assume that since you do not have "Persist" checked, you lose the ability to change the volume or use "next" track because the LAN drops the connection?

That's what happens to me if it is unchecked, so I always have it checked. I was wondering if that may not be your case for some reason.

David

So I need two Ethernet ports on Music Server PC... I see. I read somewhere on forum about this two ports thing...

ZH

Peter,
BTW, my settings most of time (when I not experimenting) are identical to yours. In fact I found out that if I turn on Persist my RD session will freeze after music playing finished on audio pc. Only way out of this will be force reboot audio pc.

So most likely my LAN disconnection during music play is because of my music server pc --> audio pc is not wired correctly.  Currently they are both connected to Ethernet switch (not router), but not to each other.

In your diagram, audio pc has no internet which is probably by design I guess. I never thought you can connect PC's to each other to get a LAN connection! Like a daisy chain which reminds me of early Macintosh network. I might be wrong.

I will experiment.

Best,
Zheng

Good news Peter!
Since I don't have two Ethernet ports on music server at moment, I did some my own experiment. the whole point is about audio PC not having internet. So I killed it by removing Gateway numbers in Ethernet adapter property. Then make sure there's no internet connection by running browser. And make sure RD and LAN still work. Viola all worked as meant to be! No freeze, no loss of RD or LAN connection and alt-x alt-s all work! All this without adding a second Ethernet port.
Good night,
Zheng

                                              |-->audio pc
iPad -> wifi-> router -> switch []
                                              |-->music server

This is my diagram.

ZH

No ...
I know how confusing this combination of settings is, but it works the other way around because you must SET things the other way around (or understand what the setting implies) :

---

1. Keep LAN Services ACTIVE (red). Meaning : the LAN environment is kept when booting from Normal OS into MinOS.
2. Set Persist to INACTIVE (blue). Meaning : When you go to Unattended (MinOS is implied) the LAN shuts down except for the denoted exceptions (the LAN-parts of it) like "Use Remote Desktop".

The above in different wording :
When we boot into MinOS the LAN services are not taken out hence all of the LAN will be just there.
When we start Unattended Playback the LAN is shut down (you'd want that for better SQ) because you did not tell the system to "persist" in Keeping the LAN.
Any activity requiring the LAN will start that (and shut down again if applicable).

---

Now we make this of it :

---

1. Keep LAN Services ACTIVE (red). Meaning : the LAN environment is kept when booting from Normal OS into MinOS.
2. Set Persist to ACTIVE (red). Meaning : When you go to Unattended (MinOS is implied) the LAN does not shut down.

The above in different wording :
When we boot into MinOS the LAN services are not taken out hence all of the LAN will be just there.
When we start Unattended Playback nothing changes to the status of the LAN because we told to "persist" the "keeping" state.
The LAN now will never shut down, whatever you do.
Notice that while staying in MinOS you can change the state of Persist and it will be respected (but don't change it while Unattended Playback is going on at that moment).

---

Again an other scenario :

---

1. Keep LAN Services INACTIVE (blue). Meaning : the LAN environment is cut from the OS when going from Normal OS to MinOS.
2. Set Persist to INACTIVE (blue) or ACTIVE (red) whatever you like ... it doesn't do a thing because there are no LAN services available anywhere.

The above in different wording :
When we boot into MinOS the LAN services are taken out and that can't come back, unless going to Normal OS again (where they will be "in" by standard).

Side note on this one : I am not sure whether Keep LAN = INACTIVE combines with "Use Remote Desktop", but I'm inclined to say Not.

---

That was all. :)
Best regards,
Peter

Hi Peter,
When I look at my diagram, I feel it needs further clarification.
It is how physically they are connected which is different from your usual practice because audio pc's Ethernet cable goes to Switch instead of to music pc.

From point of RD sessions, my flow is NO different from yours:
iPad -> RD -> music server -> RD -> audio pc (internet disabled via leaving Gateway field blank in adapter property)

All works properly now. Next, 2.10

Thanks,
Zheng

Peter,
I feel I need to have a summary regarding my problem of audio pc became unresponsive at the end of Unattended play under RD sessions.

1. Initially I was only doing one RD session from iPad->audio pc, or music server->audio pc.

2. Later by your diagram, I started to use two RD sessions simultaneously like most of you've been doing. iPad->music pc->audio pc

3. In both instances (under minimized OS, LAN on, Persist off), my audio pc became non-responsive after an Unattended play.

4. Final resolution: turning off internet function in audio pc by leaving Gateway field blank in Ethernet adapter properties.

Best,
Zheng

Hi Zheng - Very well done !!

I'll give this link as well, because it coincidentally / luckily has the very same solution for a very different problem :
Re: A secure way to prevent Windows 10 , updates on the audio PC (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=3747.msg40047#msg40047)

To understand better what this is about - and when you don't have a faint heart, also read this : Peter's small addition (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=3747.msg40061#msg40061).

Best regards and thanks !
Peter

Peter,

If I reboot the audio pc and  have "persist" unchecked in MinOS everything works as you suggest; the  cover displays and the connection works as it should in unattended. After that playlist ends and the UI returns, if I start another playlist in Unattended, the connection is lost right after the "wait for services to stop" is done and music plays. Once the music stops, I am able to reconnect.

My solution so far is to just leave persist checked and I don't have any trouble with the disconnects.

Do you know why this would work once after a reboot but after that, I would continually lose the connection? 

David

Update-

I removed the Gateway numbers in NormalOS like Zheng did and now everything seems to be working as it should with "persist" off.

Hi David,


Is it possible, please, to create a new topic for this with adequate description (unless you already started a topic about this problem - which I recall vaguely, then please put this in there). Also denote in there which XXHighEnd version this is about, OK ?

I ask, because this problem is a different one , IMO.
If you don't see me respond on it today, then please retry tomorrow. I am going to find some beers right now ...

Best regards,
Peter

PS:
Just saw this update. If all is fine, then don't bother, obviously. And congrats in that case !

Peter,
Occasionally I still lost connection while on RD session especially listening to the whole album in Unattended. The consequence is that I had to force reboot audio PC and then XXHE will think she is in an XP machine.

Remedy is what you told me. Change ..W10.tss to .tst. then boot into Normal OS, then play something, change back to .tss, boot into Minimized, all is good.

My question is: Is this hurting anything? Is it degrading SQ? I am worried because 2.10 sounds so good.

Best,
Zheng

Hi Zheng - Hard to say.
I occasionally need to do the same (hard reboot, though for different reasons). I am always happy that my OS booted from RAM and nothing will change to the "base" OS it is derived from.
(never mind in understanding, and I just expressed my thoughts about your worries).

What happens if you switch off the amps (to be certain no strange noises will occur) and you pull the USB cable ?
Theoretically it is possible that the Sound Engine (givens an error and) stops nicely and with that XXHighEnd is brought up and with that the connection is re-established.

Of course it is better to find the cause and "repair" that, but ...


Thank you very much for sharing this !
This is quite logical but now I have a means to repeat the situation and thus the possibility to solve this in software.
Of course I can't use my RAM-OS for this, so I'd need hard reboots of the "base" OS to test it. :swoon:

Best regards and thank you,
Peter