XXHighEnd

After playing with XX for some weeks on Windows Server (with GUI), here are some of my findings / hiccups / questions:

•   Minimize OS gives error message “not allowed for XP”.
•   Straight Continuous (memory organization) gives error message “not possible for XP or lower; will be set to Mixed”.
•   At startup, this error message: “#3 Engine is for Vista, Server 2008, or Windows 7 only” occurs twice.
•   Sometimes playlist remains empty after filling it with tracks; the tracks become visible only after restarting XX.
•   In unattended mode I only see a black screen, no text with information.
•   The only hotkey that works for me in unattended mode is Alt-X; the others do not work.
•   Why is the Windows Explorer always starting when XX starts? This happens also after Alt-X in unattended mode. I do not need the Windows Explorer as I am using an alternative explorer (Double Commander).
•   Using the LAN button always shows “The LAN should be on already”, also when this does not seem the case (such as when my NAS drive is not accessible after quitting unattended).
•   Would it be possible to re-activate LAN automatically after leaving unattended mode?
•   When I add tracks to the P(lay) view using the XX Explorer, the tracks are often not shown, although they will play when pressing Play.

Any guidance on these will be welcome. Anyway, I thought I'd mention these in case they could be useful / relevant for the next release.

Hmm ... I think you are lucky that something plays at all !

As told by (I think) email, WS2012 is not supported by 2.07 yet, and the trick to tell the system that another OS is active (like W10) does not work, unexpectedly. This means that you're indeed using the facilities of XP only, which is, well, nothing much. And if this produces something like a good SQ, wait untill the real thing is there. :)
A few remarks anyway :


This theoretically can be caused by not setting anything for it. Thus, it requires to show the Wallpaper Coverart (see Coverart section in Settings) and/or show the OSD text (see in Services and OSD section the OSD Text field).
However, when the Wallpaper works for Attended and not for Unattended, this is caused by Windows 10 (same WS2010) not being able to show the Wallpaper in the required mode, which lacks because all thinks it is XP.


I think this is unexpected. But then again it depends on what you actually try more and for example, I wouldn't know how much the changing of the volume depends on "not XP"; also see the "#3 is not for Vista etc." message.


Can again be the XP thing, but more probable it is that you leave an Explorer instance running, which makes the check whether the Desktop must start fail and instead another Explorer instance is started; this happens in all versions like this for this reason. So remedy : never leave open any Explorer instance which isn't what you'd want anyway (hard to see for you because in your XP mode almost othing closes down, while almost all should - start thinking about MinOS not working).


Please keep in touch with this with 2.08 as it could be a general bug. However, then for Normal OS only, which nobody is supposed to use for real (but you have to know). So what I can imagine is that in Normal OS the LAN shuts off because you tell it to, but that elsewhere things go not right because the situation is unexpected. So if later (2.08) you still have a issue with it, please let it know.
According to me all should work fine, but still some combination of things may matter.


That is how it is supposed to work anyway. But denote "Keep LAN" - "Not Persistent" (which is again all related to the transition of Normal OS to MinOS, so moot again for you now).

All other is (to be) related to the wrong OS detection.

Something else : I need a small test drive for detecting WS2010 properly. So I intend to give you a pre-2.08 version to check out a few things; without further release notes to 2.08 you will be able to really use it when we're done with it.
Is this OK for you ?
I'm not sure about the time window we have for this ... (it is 1:30 pm here at this moment - relate to the time of this post). This, with the notice it may take several days if throughput (and today I am not ready for it anyway, I think).

Best regards,
Peter

PS: Do you have a name please ?

hi Peter,

I will be happy to help test/debug the new pre-version(s) on my system. Please note that I am using Windows Server 2016 with 'User Experience' = GUI.

I will send you a mail so you have my address.

Looking forward to the results, and thanks for your continued work on fine-tuning and improving this wonderful player!

Cheers,
Dennis

OK Dennis, thanks !

I just sent you an email with a test version + explanation. Meanwhile though, I found that before the OSIsW10.tst thing can work, there's also the necessity to rename the file OSIsDifferent.tss to OSIsDifferent.tst. So no bug (I assume now) but an incomplete instruction for you. So if the test as per the email is completed, you can also still try to rename mentioned file as well en retry (now now "XP" should come up). Whether something else goes wrong ... probably. But maybe you can do more (For example, Wallpaper Coverart showing now in Unattended). Anyway I like to know, but don't spend too much time on it please.

When you are done with the OSIsW10.tst, don't forget to also rename back the OSIsDifferent to .tss.

Thanks a lot,
Peter

Hi Peter,

Test as per email is completed. And your few suggestions already helped a lot, thanks!

The following are now solved after renaming the OSIsW10.tss and OSIsDifferent.tss extensions to tst, and changing the LAN settings.
•   Minimize OS gives error message “not allowed for XP” * SOLVED
•   At startup, this error message: “#3 Engine is for Vista, Server 2008, or Windows 7 only” occurs twice * SOLVED
•   The only hotkey that works for me in unattended mode is Alt-X; the others do not work. * SOLVED
•   Using the LAN button always shows “The LAN should be on already” * SOLVED
•   Would it be possible to re-activate LAN automatically after leaving unattended mode? * SOLVED and the LAN button's color now also shows its on/off-state
•   When I add tracks to the P(lay) view using the XX Explorer, the tracks are often not shown, although they will play when pressing Play * SOLVED?

Remaining are only:
•   In unattended mode I only see a black screen, no text with information. * Changing the Wallpaper settings did not help. Actually for me this is no real problem. The blackness of the screen symbolizes the blackness of the sound background :-)
•   Straight Continuous (memory organization) gives error message “not possible for XP or lower; will be set to Mixed”.
•   Why is the Windows Explorer always starting when XX starts? This happens also after Alt-X in unattended mode. I do not need the Windows Explorer as I am using an alternative explorer (Double Commander). * This may have something to do with the fact that I do no use the normal Windows Shell (as part of system optimizations for audio)

Cheers, Dennis

Hi Dennis,

This (the above) could be dangerous to some extent because almost by guarantee counterproductive elements will be at play. Example : when you let XXHighEnd do its job, there is NO Shell active anywhere (hence the black screen). You can leave it be for now though, but my point could be that any strangeness could spring from this setup. Example again : When playback stops (from Unattended and when the GUI is brought up), mentioned Shell is restarted. But if it is not detected, possibly (I don't even know really) this is done again when not found. And since you have this alternative Shell, it won't be found.

Let me add one other thing (for proper context) : you are the first to use a Server version because you just did already (am I right ?). "We" don't need it in the first place, because the OS is torn down like your server version to begin with ...
Still it will sound different (could be better as such just the same) because everything sounds different.

Also keep in mind please that only "certified" W10 Builds are 100% supported, because as you may know, what works today for Build 693 does not work tomorrow for Build 694. And for Audio this is crucial to avoid (things don't sound right any more "today" and what could be the cause ...).
On the other hand and to be honest, I don't know a thing about native Server versions. All I know that for the Desktop version 14393.0 is the latest one "certified". Mind the .0 ...

Kind regards,
Peter

hi Peter,

Indeed I already was running WS2016 with optimized OS (Audiophile Optimizer etc.) so that I can play (or upsample to) DSD. I would prefer to keep that possibility.

Now that many things seem to work fine with XX under Windows Server 2016 after the tss/tst change, I decided to try Minimize OS again. This time it worked, but I think it has messed up a few things. First, I could not create a restore point. Second, I cannot login any longer using Remote Desktop. And third I could not get music to play: there is an error message suggesting me to lower SFS.

Not complaining, as I know XX is built for W10, so just trying to see how far I can push it with WS2016.

Now it is time to think and not do anything hasty, but I am seriously considering to move to W10, hoping that I can use XX's 'Minimize OS' to optimize the OS and then have other players (Russian AlbumPlayer with foo_dsd_asio or HQPlayer) benefit from that when playing DSD.

Will keep you posted...

Cheers, Dennis

Dennis,


Restore Points in MinOS can not be made. So if it is that what you mean ...


There's a separate setting for this in the Services section ("Use Remote Desktop"). Can it be that ?


Which can just be the thruth and your "inexperience" with the Straight Contiguous Memory setting (which you now have working). If an SFS of 2.00 also does not work, the problem is a different one.
Btw, consider that you must have 16GB of memory, but I suppose you'll have that.

Regards,
Peter

hi Peter,

I admit inexperience indeed, but am keen to learn :-) Thanks for helping me with that!

• Restore Point before minimizing OS: not having that is OK; I just will make sure I have a Windows Server Backup.
• Remote Desktop: the setting already seemed OK, but it is working now!
• Play/SFS error: after fine-tuning buffer (KS mode Adaptive), Q values and SFS this is working now. Actually I was never able to use Straight Contiguous: I am on Mixed Contiguous.

Note that before I was playing from 2 RAMdisks (XX on A: and music on B:), but I now tested without this. Would going back to RAMdisk change any of the above?
Could RAMdisk work with Minimized OS at all?
Here I have to admit I now only have 8GB of ECC memory; but I have two extra slots so I could extend this to 16GB if needed.
What do you advise?

For your information, I counted the processes (P) and threads (T) using the Task Manager:

• Audiophile Optimizer P45, T450
• + CAD optimization incl. Desktop Killer P43, T415
• + Fidelizer Pro P39, T438
• XXHighEnd normal OS + unattended mode (without the above) P34, T453
• XXHighEnd minimized OS P29, T340
• XXHighEnd minimized OS + unattended mode: unable to check as Task Manager cannot be started in this state, correct?

So this looks very good for XX.
 
I get the impression we are already very close to full XX functionality on Windows Server 2016 – or am I mistaken?

Best, Dennis

Hi Dennis,


Hmm ... you say before eh ? So if you mean to say that when going from Normal OS to MinOS no Restore Point can be made, then this is not intended - it just should work. If it does not work then this is not an issue really, unless you think yourself it is. :) But, it should be caused by AO then (as I don't think the server version is special regarding this).


It should be possible, but with the notice that your being low on memory (the 8GB) requires a Max SFS which is low (say maxinum 12.00) *and* you need to start playback as fast as possible after a boot (then the sound engine allocates the memory and it will keep on doing that throughout the boot session).


I can't be sure whether you did that in the right fashion - it looks like not ? Your "music on B:" should be "Playback Drive" is set to B:. This means that your music is elsewhere (could be NAS etc.) but always automatically gets copied to B: before playback starts.
So if you did it like that, it is fine.
Do notice though that with 8GB of memory this is hardly doable. Maybe you can get away with one album in the Playlist Area but certainly not Hires.


That depends; From of a certain W10 build this can work - I forgot which. But just the same : with a newer build it maybe stopped again. I can't tell because - as said - 14393.0 is the latest which is formally supported. Btw do notice that any build which is not formally supported WILL have something wrong with it. So each W10 version/build supported (which are 5 IIRC) has special functionality to let it work well. And oh, this is also how something of the Server version may not work. Thus, not because it is the Server version, but because it requires special attention software wise. Anyway :
I forgot, but you must or set Q3, Q4 and Q5 all to 1, or all to 0 for Taskmanager to work (which means : not freeze). You may not want this to be set differently than you have it at this moment, but to check the processes etc. you can temporarily change it.
Oh, I am just thinking ... You say "can not start it". This seems to tell that you don't know the ctrl-shift-esc sequence. So indeed, without that you can not start Task Manager in Unattended and MinOS (no Taskbar etc.).


It looks like it, yes. But if you have a spare minute, I like you to reinstall the normal Windows Shell because it is one of the key things to work or fail in any W10 Build. And, I am asking because your lacking Wallpaper Coverart and ever starting Explorer when you bring up the GUI. So yes, I realize that you are fine with it, but I just like to know whether the Sever version works all the way, or that really something fails here. Especially the ever starting Explorer should be a pain. :yes:

Thank you for your help !
Peter

Maybe a bit talking to myself :

While looking into the OSIsW10.tst thing, I noticed that something is not completely right in there. This is again related to the dedicated support for certain W10 Builds. So, we have OSIsW10.tst but actually it should be OSIsW10-10074.tst, OSIsW10-10240, ..., OSIsW10-14393.0.

Thinking further, possibly nothing goes wrong really, and your 14393.693 will be treated as 14393.0.
For others : Would this be 15xxx.xxx+ (which also exists I think) then a few things won't work well.

I disabled all other optimizations before testing XX. So no AO or FP were applied. However, it is known that some AO optimizations remain after resetting te services. The error I get is: "Restore Point FAILED - Error 01: Not Found".

I will try and keep you posted regarding Straight Contiguous.

Yes I did it in the right fashion (music copied from NAS to B:), sorry if I was ambiguous. I have the RAMdisks now at 1.5GB each, just to try some songs at the time. If it really sounds better than non-RAMdisk, I could boost the memory to 16GB.
Still I wonder: would RAMdisk work OK in minimized OS mode?
For the test above I just played from a usb stick, no NAS and no RAMdisk.

I could not start it with Ctrl-Alt-Del or Ctrl-Shift-Esc (nothing much else to click in minimized OS I agree).

I already installed the normal Windows Shell before testing. I noticed that sometimes the taskbar fully disappears (at it should I guess), but sometimes it is still there, or partly there, without being clickable. The good news: the Explorers no longer pop up!

Thanks again & cheers, Dennis

*update* Yes, Straight Contiguous worked after doing what you said. I must say the sound is gorgeous, and Minimize OS really makes a difference!

I found out for myself: it works!

After fine-tuning, it seems that your player has dusted off the cobwebs of the PCM part of my Lampizator DAC. For the first time it can compete with its DSD part :-)

Dennis,


If you switch on Logging (at the bottom in Settings), in your XX folder a subfolder TemporaryData will contain log files;
Could you, with a next attempt to make the Restore Point, attach (to a post) the newest XX- log file (only XX-, no others are needed) ?
I don't recognize any "not found" situation, so it could be a server thing.
Take your time for this - no rush.


I forgot to answer to this earlier on;
Yes, sure it works OK. It is only that I'd think it works out for the worse with so few memory. But otherwise it sounds better.
I suppose you read this one, right ? Installing and using a RAMDisk (IMDisk) (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2915.msg30750#msg30750)


I wonder why ... This should normally work.
And ctrl-alt-esc works in Normal OS ?

Btw, if you (can ?) start TaskManager in advance of Unattended playback, it will keep on running.


Sadly this is a W10 quirk (since 14388.0). Notice that in the end you won't lack a thing, *if* you only prepare the desktop with icons of programs you regularly need (like Explorer, cmd etc.).

On a side note, don't forget to use XXOSK.Exe and then in the "square" mode. You will see soon how convenient that is. And notice you can resize it by means of dragging the "title bar" corners. Also set "Use Touch Facilities" in Settings (Services and OSD section), when you use the remote for control.

Is it correct that still no Wallpaper shows ?
If indeed not, we must be careful that this is now not caused by other quirks, which easily happen in W10 after first install of XXHighEnd. This can be noticed by any normal Wallpaper not showing. So when no Wallpaper Covert shows, let me know whether you are able to have a normal Wallpaper (set by yourself) and whether this re-appears when you bring up XXHighEnd and press Stop.

Peter

PS: For 2.08 WS2016 is now formally supported, but so far without special adjustments for it (I just don't know any yet).

Ah, great !

Hi Peter,

Done: you have mail.

Yes, works like a charm.

Yes, both work in normal OS. But thanks for your suggestion to start TM before going Unattended, which it allowed me to count the processes and threads: P19, T257, nice and lean!

Nice little tool, will get acquainted with it... You thought of everything!

Wallpaper is showing!

Great news!

Something new:
Since making the recent changes my OS now says, in the lower right corner, 'Test Mode'. Is this expected?

Best, Dennis

OK Dennis, great.


Well, I know at least one of the settings implies it. Not sure whether you could touch that but anyway it is a normal "feature". It doesn't do anything in itself (for SQ) but it allows for some OS settings to change.
Anyway it is perfectly normal.


Thanks. So this really looks like some feature missing on the server version, but actually I can't see much.
I don't think I asked already whether you can make a Restore Point yourself in Normal OS (no need to try in MinOS) ? So, can you ? (the answer is not even realy important)
Again thinking further ... the missing feauture can easily be caused by AO (just was never installed). Notice that this feature is not necessarily related to making Restore Points, but merely to a(n API) command set which is more rarely used (by programmers).

If you don't mind really, I prefer to let this be, just because we have no option to attach / debug the problem. What I will do anyway, is put in some log entries in there and if you can remember this, then at the time 2.08 is there you can retry again and we'll have a better log. But then still I am quite confident I won't be able to solve it. One thing though : we then could ask AudioPhil whether is disables the function of concern (this is hard to ask right now because there's quite a few things used in there).

Peter

OK, no problem then. It think it is rather an 'enhanced' state which allows more drivers to function.

Indeed certainly not an XX issue: I just found out that system restore points are not possible in Server 2016. There Windows Server Backup is the way to go, so I will use that.
(Or maybe you could just let some pop-up say "restore points not supported for this OS" or something.)

Best, Dennis

Just not at all, ever, you mean ?


Yep, good idea.


Yes, this is correct. I just looked, but you will have used the button "Refresh" tagged "Driver Signing ?"in the Output section in Settings. If you click the button when it shows "Refresh" you can click it and it will show "Change" (also observe the text preceeding the button). Click it once again, and all will be set to normal again (will require a reboot).

I now see that no Server version supports making Restore Points. In there it's something like "System State Backup".

For 2.08 I now silently skip the function (people should know, right ?  :)).

Anyway, now we have a first "function" for WS2016. Haha.

Could not get rid of the test modus using refresh/change buttons – probably my bad. But I got rid of it using:
  bcdedit /set testsigning off
from the command line and rebooting.

Making a Windows Server Backup now... (while I will go do some shopping).
This only works when OS is not optimized, but that is expected and desireable I guess. Same applies to AO.