XXHighEnd

I just updated my RAM-OS disk per Peter's instructions. (As an aside, I also had an issue with the Windows 7 DVD DownloadTool. Tried on a W7 and W10 machine, but got the same error message as Juan. 'isotousb.com' worked perfectly - thanks Robert.)

I then loaded XX2.06a onto W10586 base on the RAM-OS disk. Now, I use the same RAM-OS disk on two totally separate audio PCs - one in my office and the other in my main room.

The office audio PC works perfectly. But I've got an annoying issue with the main audio PC. I'm having what looks like a scaling problem when coming out of Unattended. The only solution is to then close XX and open it again - the scaling problem is then totally resolved.

I'm using exactly the same hardware and RDC connection as before - coming out of Unattended has worked perfectly with XX2.05 since I received the RAM-OS disk at the beginning of the year. I'm made no changes to the RDC whatsoever.

I haven't seen anything in the scaling and skinning tutorials (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?board=12.0) that seems to address this issue.

Any ideas?

Mani.

Not sure if it's related, but I've had the 'initialization failed' error message on both audio PCs.

Also, before applying a presetloader.XXSI, I was not getting the full path in the XX title bar. (I've used Peter's screenshots here, but mine were/are identical with the 2.06 replaced by 2.06a).

Mani.

Hi Mani,

Remember, the TRIAL OS is totally unrelated to this all.

Strangely enough I have been working on exactly what you have there, and it was solved in 2.06/2.06a. Nobody ever announced the problem, but now you do *after* installing this version.

This has to be related to some sound device different setting (for the both PC's you use). But also : keep strictly in mind that you might imply quite strange issues with using, well ... one BASE for two PC's. Understand ?
Anyway that was my first thought when I saw the screen's showing odd, but at second thought the issue starts with that error message and that is internally about sound device stuff.

Can you see whether you have Show Tooltips (bottom of Settings) active and if so, switch if Off and try again ?

Peter

Hi Peter,


Sure - I just wanted to let people know I'd updated the TRIAL OS.


I have WASAPI active in both PCs (so I could play around with a few things). Perhaps this is the issue? Strange then that one PC is 'happy' and the other isn't.


All worked fine with 2.05! I've just tried 2.05 again and it comes back from Unattended just fine. Something is not right though with 2.05 too... the monitor remains on (i.e. the screen does not go black as it should with the settings I use).


I always have this off. Have just tried with it on and off - exactly the same.

I'm going to go back into Normal OS and switch WASAPI off. Will report back...

Mani.

And what ?
Please see that you may imply that I must be careful that such things will work over PC's, which is impossible. Only with luck you won't notice anything of it. Over 400 things are registered (saved) when XXHighEnd is closed, and they are all environemnt related. Load that into another PC and there you *will* go, one way or the other and not today then tomorrow.

No need to further respond to this as I only like to make this clear. Otherwise
a. I said that it won't be the problem anyway;
b. that I *did* change things in exactly the area of your issue.

Ad b.
So it is almost logic that prior to 2.06 you did not notice.

Lastly, I only elaborated so you can pion point the cause, hopefully.

Regards,
Peter

Well, this seems to have fixed the problem. Everything is working fine when I use RDC with a 1920x1080 screen.

But when I use my laptop with a 3200x1800 screen, the XX window is 3-4 times smaller and pushed up into the top left-hand corner when coming out of Unattended. As before, closing XX and restarting brings the XX window back to how it was originally (before going into Unattended and then Alt-Xing out).

Nothing else to say, I don't think...

Mani.

I'd like to revisit this thread...

I'm having to close and re-start XX whenever I come out of Unattended, because the XX window comes back totally messed up, just as I showed at the beginning of this thread. It's getting quite tiresome now. I've also now ascertained that this re-scaling issue is unrelated to WASPI being on or off in the audio PC (contrary to my earlier earlier findings).

I can also now say that this issue is totally independent of audio PC hardware, as when my new Mach II is connected to my main system (stellar sound BTW... more on this at a later point), it exhibits the exact same behaviour as my previous audio PC ('Le Monster').

But for me, the really crazy thing is that this re-scaling only seems to happen in one of my systems. The issue exists in the following chain:

controlling PC (desktop/laptop) -> RDC -> music server -> RDC -> main audio PC

BUT... it doesn't exist in this chain:

controlling PC (desktop/laptop) -> RDC -> music server -> RDC -> office audio PC

In other words, when the Mach II was in my office, there was no re-scaling issue. Only when I took it into the basement did it start showing the same re-scaling issue as my previous audio PC there. Oh, and the two (Mach II and Le Monster) have the RAM-OS loaded from two totally separate hard drives.

Anyone else having this re-scaling issue whenever coming out of Unattended??? Any ideas how to solve?

Mani.

Mani,

Can it be that you work in full screen ? If so, this implies additional complexity. In that case drag the screen smaller (do that at the right side is advised).

If it is not that, maybe you've set the resolution to something which is not legal. Hard to explain, but say that already with the video card in and not over RDC the resolution is already wrong for aspect ratio (egg-shaped wheels and such).

Or, you've set the Monitor's "DPI" percentage to other than 100% (125%, 150%, custom value).

I am not saying that the latter two are not allowed, but it may explain why you run into such a rare thing.
Also think about the (different) relation between the remote control screen for the office and the main system. Read : what would happen if you try to use the office remote on the main system.

All of the above is just hints. The only thing I know which may work out oddly (and then even some times) is when using full screen. Which btw is "where" exactly when using a remote ??

Peter

It doesn't seem to be related to running RDC and/or XX in full screen (see attached). These were taken from the desktop PC in my office, which is what I normally use to RDC to the music server when listening to the audio PC in my office. I have never had an issue with scaling here. How can there be a problem now? I mean, the configuration is exactly the same, except the Mach II now connects to the NOS1a in my basement, not the one in my office. (Hey Peter, remember when I told you that HQPlayer seems to like one NOS1a and not the other, could this be related at all???)

I don't have an audio PC in my office right now but will try the Mach II back in the office at some point.

Mani.

(I later injected this sentence : it can well be that XXHighEnd does not expect sizes to be larger than 2500)

The key must be in this, while this is not "normal" so to speak. I think that -when digging deeper - more things will appear to operate strange. So notice :

Normally any remote is smaller for physical size and resolution than the device it controls. The effect ? (when all has been set as should) : you will see the virtual control (size) on the original screen, smaller. No problem.
But now your bigger ...

I don't think this can work (read : in general, and this is not XXHighEnd related).
What can be done though is that this remote is first set to a resolution which is as large (small) as the controlled PC, like 1920x1080 and then the RDC data is set.

This is far from easy to explain, with to be sure my reference to opening the RDC settings in Notepad and change all from there. See attachment for an example and do notice that depending on what one wants it can be crazily difficult to get all where you want to have it (don't copy anything of that example as it is not XXHighEnd related; it is just  a very "difficult" example). Anyway that not assumed, this is your target :

Get the remote at a size which is normal and which especially is the LOWER resolution. Why ? because else the scaling will be insufficient to get all shown as large as you want. Example :
If a button is originally 40x15 pixels and this was made with 800x600 in mind, then your 3200 resolution at a physical same size screen (or even smaller) will make that button 4 times smaller. Thus, it is still 40x15 pixels, but 4 times more (in e.g. width) fit on the same screen size. This means that you want to scale 4x at least, while only 2.7 max is available.
This is one.

Two is that most probably you have not set that resolution on the hist (the Audio PC) so all is mapped in "illegal" fashion but very much dependent on how you have set things in such a settings file. Generally : If you are able in the first place to create something in "a" remote with a 100% correct aspect ratio, then you apparently know how to do this. Btw, this is already too difficult for 95% of people (who just don't see it is wrong in the first place). This IOW : only when you know how to do this correctly, you also know what to achieve, plus you understand what I try to bring across, which is super difficult to begin with.

a. Set Audio PC to 1920x1080
b. Set Remote to 1920x1080 *if* it can exactly take that. If not, set the Audio PC to a smaller screen size - one which the remote can take.
c. Add the Smart Scaling line with i:1 (different from the example below).
d. Take into account that maybe it is not possible to achieve what you want.

Ad d.
It really us difficult to put myself in the situation of that remote having a higher resolution than the host.

Ad a.
Don't forget my remark about the 4x smaller buttons and what you will have "mangled" to overcome this. Contrary, you should avoid this mangling. Understand ?

:heat:
Peter

PS: I did not read your last post yet ...

Mani, this confuses me; You talk like "see, they are fine !" but they are not.
Apart from that this is obvious, let me tell you the most explicitly that already the first screenshot is very "wrong". If I see correctly, I see a desktop, inside of that some screen with scrollbars and inside that again a screen with scrollbars. This, while nothing but the original Audio PC's screen should be visible (this will be your inside screen - the one with the blue Windows 10 background).

See below ...

The first picture is of my Music Server Screen (screen is 1680 x 1050). The inside window is the one which is to appear on my tablet. It already there is the exact same resolution (which is measures !) of the tablet. Thus, in the RDC settings file there's 1366 x 768 or whatever exactly (just look at the tablet and make it the same in the file, which is impossible in your situation unless the Music Server Screen is also 3200 x etc.).

Second picture is the tablet after taking over. See ? no other screens visible anywhere. No scrollbars either. Only the taskbar of 14393.0 which does not want to disappear. :)

On a side note, the aspect ratio is 100% OK because I never changed it. Thus, the original (which virtually is the tablet) is made equal to that on the Music Server PC and the space XXHighEnd occupies is just by dragging the borders (this does not change the aspect ratio).
The "size" of the Audio PC is not even important (I now think / see). Remember, the Audio PC does not even have a video card inside BUT in my case it has been set to 1280 x 1024 (its monitor when attached is that).

Notice that when you allow those scrollbars, you will never ever force yourself to do it right.
... But keep in mind that maybe the larger 3200 on the remote may make things impossible to set right. Otoh, setting that remote to the lower resilution, and all may be fine. May be.

Peter

Attached you see the Notepad file of the RDC setting on the Music Server PC (towards the Audio PC). Notice the 1366x768 in there, which is from the tablet and which is the one controlling the Music Server PC.

All not so obvious eh ?

Hey Peter, thanks for your last 3 posts, but I set RDC as per instructions ages ago. It has been working perfectly on both my systems until 2.06a. I used to use my laptop with screen res 3200x1800 with no problems whatsoever with 2.05. I mentioned this before and you dismissed it...


I've put the Mach II in my office system, and everything works perfectly, as it has always done in here (see attached). To be clear, I never use the windows like this - I always have the RDC windows maximized - but I wanted to show you that it doesn't make a difference.

So, the only difference between these screen shots and the earlier ones is that the Mach II is connected to a different NOS1a... AND THAT'S ALL. The music server and the controlling PC remain the same, both with a screen resolution of 1920x1080.

The last two screen shots show what happens when I use my 3200x1800 as the controlling PC. The reduction in size when resuming from Unattended never used to happen with 2.05, but at least it's still usable.

Mani.

Mani,

What is the Scaling Factor in XXHighEnd ?

Also, what is the display DPI setting on the laptop ? (see below, 1st is from Windows 7, 2nd is from from Windows 10)

Peter

Hey Peter, here are my current settings:

- XX scale factor = 1.7
- controlling desktop:
   - resolution = 1920x1080
   - W10 scaling level = 100%
- controlling laptop:
   - resolution = 3200x1800
   - W10 scaling level = 250%

To be absolutely clear, when I'm using the laptop and come out of Unattended, XX looks as above (2.5x smaller than before Unattended - but with the text scaled correctly). But closing and then re-starting XX brings it back to the 'correct' size. So, whatever re-scaling mechanism is working on the restart doesn't seem to be working when coming back from Unattended. Does this make sense?

Mani.

That is your problem, in combination with the 3200 resolution.

For your mind, try to avoid any "but 2.05 was fine !" because even if it was, I think it can't work OK in the first place.

XXHighEnd is set to a Scaling factor of 1.7, which is about smaller than normal visiblilty on a slightly smaller physical screen (assumed for the laptop). Combine that with the 3200 resulotin and you're nowhere (and it just shows as you showed and what I promised (with the 4x smaller button example)).

Your real problem is that you try to work with a 3200 resolution which is (allow me) foolish, because everything will be way too small and only specialized software will utilize it properly (like video playback). So your solution : set the DPI higher (the 250%) and think all is fine. But it is not at all.
Set to 100%, set to 1920 (or even smaller), set XXHighEnd to whatever you like (around 2.00 I'd say) and you will see that all is fine.
And oh, do notice that with 1920 any laptop is already unmanageble (with the scaling at 100% which is the only setting which by guarantee will show all right). With an 21" screen it starts to work out ...

Now I know you are ignorant as hell and don't believe a thing I am saying, so :


The only thing I can imagine at this moment is that whatever Windows needs to do for its scaling (the 250%) is not active with certain services shut down. Also good to blame 2.06(a) for it now, right ?
But ...
So what you can try is make as many services NOT to shut down while being in Minimized and see whether that helps. Just to see.

Peter

PS:
It is a bit hard to check, but it looks like 14393.0 not being able to scale at all, once in Minimized OS.

PPS: Maybe again try to reason out the difference between Office and Main. I ask this because I removed some ever occurring message (I think it is the one starting with "This message should not occur") because 14388 came up with it by default and this is related to the Sound Device initialisation. So if we now think about DAC's being different somewhere, it can just as well be this. Furthermore the showing of the message implied some early "Windows initialisation" (too difficult to explain) which just as well may have caused the services required here to start (early).

Regarding this all, there could be a difference between Alt-X and Ctrl-Alt-X ... (just try it out).

Peter

I bought my laptop earlier this year. I never set anything - the screen resolution and DPI were factory set to 3200x1800 and 250% respectively. Everything has worked fine until now, so I never bothered to change anything. But now that there is a problem, of course I'm happy to try whatever.

I've just changed the settings on my laptop to 1920x1080 and 100%. The XX window still comes up smaller after Unattended than before, but it looks 75% or so of the size now (rather than 40%, as before). So the issue remains when I use my laptop...

I can live with this, but I'm assuming there will be more and more people buying new devices (laptops, tablets, etc) with screens factory set to very high resolutions, so perhaps a solution for this issue is still worth pursuing.

Mani.

Now we're talking ...

So I think that now you are proving that something is wrong.
But what.
With the Windows scaling at 100% this is now out of the (XXHighEnd) equation.

:scratching:

How can we prove it is something with a Service required to run ?
I think it can even be that W8 is fine with it. Easy to check ? (no is fine !)

Haha... Maybe when have more time... (I thought I'd try 14393 yesterday and didn't anticipate needing to put the video card back in because the IP address had changed. It all starts taking way more time than you initially think it will.)

Mani.

PS. 14393 is sounding very nice!