XXHighEnd

I was wondering what OS everyone with a separate music server is using? And is there one that is recommended over another and for what reasons?

Thanks,
Todd

Hi Todd,

All I can say is that I use Windows 7 Ultimate and this is just because it's on that particular machine.
All OSes I tried for Audio PC on the other side, work well with it (W7, W8, W8.1, W10 various builds).

Regards,
Peter

PS: What happened to your Sig ? or was it never there ?

Thanks Peter,

Sorry for being a lazy "f" and not adding my signature until just now :oops:

Todd

I've got almost everything here for my music server build (to replace my Synology NAS, which I have to say has worked perfectly for the last 3-4 years). Just thought I'd share my thoughts on which OS to use...

Win10 RTM still seems a bit under-developed to me. Loaded it on to my work PC and am having massive problems getting USB 3.0 to work correctly. And I don't really like 8/8.1. So it's going to be Win7 Ultimate for my music server build.

Mani.

Hi Mani,

I recently set up my system with a music server PC and started with Windows 10. I couldn't get it going (problems with network) and in the end installed Windows 7 Ultimate, which works fine, .... now. The network problems probably had to do more with not working in normal OS and it does work minimized.

In back sight I'm not so sure anymore that Windows10 was to blame for the problems and I think I read that Juan uses Windows 10 for his music server.

Stanley

I've been using W10 on my music server with no issues so far. 

Hi Stanley,

Yes I´m using W10 in the Music Server with no problems at all. As I said in some place my present configuration is:

Dock with 2 music drives (2Tb each) > USB 3.0 cable > Music Server PC (W10) with WiFi for Internet and with its own monitor (not a tablet) > Ethernet Gigabyte cable > Switch > Ethernet Gigabyte cable > Audio Pc with the Ram-disk


The components I use are:

- A docking station like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inateck-Docking-Station-Function-Tool-free/dp/B00LN0GX4I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1455363600&sr=8-3&keywords=DOCKING+STATION+USB3.0 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inateck-Docking-Station-Function-Tool-free/dp/B00LN0GX4I/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1455363600&sr=8-3&keywords=DOCKING+STATION+USB3.0)

- A desktop Pc: Always better with its metal case than the plastic laptops or tablets to protect from interferences.

- A Switch: Like this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-SG1005D-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Desktop/dp/B000N99BBC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1455363403&sr=8-2&keywords=TP-LINK+TL-SG1005D (http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-SG1005D-Gigabit-Unmanaged-Desktop/dp/B000N99BBC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1455363403&sr=8-2&keywords=TP-LINK+TL-SG1005D)

- A couple of Ethernet Gigabyte cables, better CAT7 for the same reason than above e.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ugreen-Ethernet-Gigabit-network-10Gbps-Black-flat/dp/B00QV1F1C4/ref=pd_sim_147_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=51QLDGlxAgL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0B6CANZ235YCS40PZWV3 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ugreen-Ethernet-Gigabit-network-10Gbps-Black-flat/dp/B00QV1F1C4/ref=pd_sim_147_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=51QLDGlxAgL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0B6CANZ235YCS40PZWV3)

It is important also that the Ethernet ports in the PC´s are up to 1Gb, otherwhise would have a bottleneck there.



The software and the configuration is the most important part to make it work correctly.

To sumarize this part I use:

Windows 10 Pro version 1511. The Remote Desktop. As I don´t use a router I made the IP configuration manually. It is also important to configure it as a Private network not as Public (don´t know if this is the correct word in English). Know how to share the hdds with music and how to map it.

I´ll try to post a step by step tutorial next week with images on how I did it.

Regards,
Juan

Hi Juan,

Thank you for the details of your setup.

I have it running smoothly now in this configuration:

Tablet <RDC-WiFi> router <cable> MusicPC <RDC-cable> AudioPC.

The router is a "dedicated" router, not standard connected to the internet. For the home network I have a separate router which can be connected to the "audio router" if necessary.

The music server pc is a simple ex-corprate desktop with my music HDD built in (http://www.micmac-computers.nl/webshop/pc-systemen/detail/857/uitverkoop---fujitsu-siemens-esprimo-e5730---core2duo-2x-300ghz---4gb---160gb---dvdrw.html).

I think for the purpose of ripping/organizing music files Windows 10 doesn't add much, so I let Windows 7 run.

Next: OS in RAM disk, I'm reading the tutorials now  :wacko2:.

Regards,
Stanley

That would be great. I do not understand this part very much.

Grtz Gerard

Seems it's an incompatibility between the USB 3.0 H/W on my mobo and the currently available W10 drivers (the mobo is a pretty new design). I installed a USB 3.0 PCIe card today and everything works perfectly.

I will now use W10 on my music server because I think it's slicker than W7. Still waiting for the music server mobo to arrive... and the 4x 4TB WD Red Pro HDDs  :yes:. But the case, CPU and ECC memory are here. I'll post the full details once it's all up and running.

I've decided that I will go all-out with Roon and Tidal on the music server too... along with XXHE to load tracks ready to be played on the audio-PC. Exciting times!

Mani.

I must be missing something with the quote below - I thought XXHE has to be on the audio server and the music server contains your music files.  The audio server has a network drive setup pointing to a music server directory.  This info is from Peter's posting http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=3211.msg34887#msg34887
Is there a tutorial on setting up the XXHE on the music server and is it then on the audio server as well?

Hi Dave,


Not explicitly and here's why :

In sequence, this is about two main things :

1. Having as much as possible out of the Audio PC;
2. Utilizing the Music Server PC for "server tasks" for the Audio PC.

Ad 1.
This is clear, I think. It is tendency to move all out of there, and with the latest incarnation of the whole setup, referring to the RAM-OS, this is now accomplished.

Ad 2.
In (further !) evolution, this is about my ever "warning" to have a Windows PC instead of a NAS, just because that Server PC can do so much more; so far I have been referring to "Tidal Preparation" as the one example, speaking for most (I mean, most understand the example).
Notice that as far as I know you are still on 1.186(-i) so you can't really tell what I am talking about.

There is no Tutorial as such for installing XXHighEnd on the Music Server PC because it would be a moot thing; it's just an XXHighEnd install like always. But, the reason is lacking so far and this would be explicit client-server functionalities. Look :

What one does at this moment (at least I do) is having the Music Server "Prepare" Tidal albums, and this can be during music playback by the Audio PC. The Audio PC obviously takes its music files from that same server which can do those Preparations. One thing :
The client-server process is a manual process, so to speak. Thus, it is me who needs to go to the Server's screen, search for some Tidal Album(s), start the Preparations, move back to the Audio PC for further control, which control physically is done by the Server PC again over RDC (nice knot, right ?).
The real client-server thing goes like this :

I am on the Audio PC which is playing music, then I think "oh wait, I want to look for more Ray Brown's" and next I hand a command to the Server to sort out what's all available - that Server being connected to the Internet while the Audio PC surely is not, and the Server calling me (the Audio PC) back with the results. Nothing disturbed the Audio PC here, except for a few bytes the Audio PC sent out with the command and the few bytes the result occupies as was asynchronously returned by the Server (the result actually only messaging that things are ready to look at on the Server('s, hey, disk).
What next happens is that I choose for Albums to be prepared out of that result list which thus resides on the Server like all resides there, and after that command is handed out it may be after 5 minutes that I'm called back with an "All ready !". Or after 20 seconds that Album A is ready to be played; it is available like all else on the server.

Now, besides we can now see a real reason for a client (Audio PC) and a server (Music Server PC) to exist, we can also see some additional "tutorial", because it requires a few more Settings to set. Example below (field at the bottom). And with some TCP knowledge you can see that the communication is setup "internally" just the same, as 127.0.0.1 is the Local Address. So the Client-Server principle has been set up for in-PC processes and tasks just the same.

Technically this is all working already, including a nice protocol. It is only yesterday that I started working on the first real functionality for it, which indeed is Tidal. So in XXHighEnd 2.06 this will be there.

It is my intention that working exclusively from a Tablet, all can be done in integrated fashion. That some tasks are performed on the Music Server PC you will not notice. It is like you performed them on the Audio PC and that the Audio PC under the hood is dealing with them. But instead the Music Server PC does and Audio Quality remains 100% untouched, playing meanwhile).

Peter

Hi Peter,
Your explanation helps a lot.
Are you thinking that in the future that the music PC will prepare (i.e. apply filtering, etc) wav files and then the audio PC essentially just streams music to the DAC.  The user interface and the preparation is on the music PC.  In doing this perhaps the requirements for the audio computer CPU becomes less and a lower wattage can be used, hence improved sound quality.  Maybe a core M chip, 4.5 watts...

Thanks, Dave

Dave,

Yes, the filtering could be an example. However, while I already typed that into my previous post, I scratched it again because I don't see it happening that this works out because of the large output files. Otoh you now mention streaming and taking that literally, yes, that could happen.
But no such (demanding) filters in sight yet, tough.


If that would be the objective, that would be running right now. But that doesn't work out, really.
So remember, our XXHighEnd PC runs at 230MHz now (Windows 10), if you want. That sounds superb, but the processor is still quite beefy.

Peter

http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2084.msg21418#msg21418

I guess what I am getting at is the 3930k requires 130W and is about 4 years old.  With some of the new energy efficient chips, they only need 4.5 watts.  And over those 4 years, Peter has also made dramatic improvements with the software and 'client-server' (music and audio PC) topology is now being advocated.  With these things in mind, perhaps a low energy audio PC should be conceived with a LPSU ;-) 
thanks, dave

Hi,
what is this for a CPU?

My intention is to use this one plus a LPSU with the RAM OS:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4790S+%40+3.20GHz

Joachim

yes, CPU.
A decent read of where Intel is going with CPU's over the next year.
http://wccftech.com/intel-2016-roadmap-leaked-confirms-kaby-lakes-10-core-broadwelle-apollo-lake-processors/
Dave

Hmm ... Dave ...

I see nothing of real interest in those new CPU's. But it's my guess you look at it differently than I do.
Of course you can aim for low wattage CPU's but I think I already said that if that would be the aim, we would be using it long ago. I feel that you don't get that it would work all right, but does not sound (at all). Joachim linked to a page where I seem to talk to myself a lot, but please read it, if you did not already. Not only that one post, but the ones under it as well.

On a side note : I don't know what my 3930K is using for power, but since the whole PC will be at 45W or so (I must look into that since the OS is in RAM only) it's maybe 30Watts. This is during playback (32/705600). So if it is about that ...

3930 (or its newer variant for LGA2011, 4930) is a few years old indeed. What LGA2011-3 brings is 4 lane memory (was 3). So, useful, but required for totally nothing that I can see (possibly the CPU can run at a lower frequency now, but I don't know how to make it lower than I can at this moment (230MHz). The new 6900 brings nothing more that I can see. 6950 brings two more cores, so can be useful indeed. But mind the $. And don't forget xeon already does the same and way more (for way more $).

If a processor bares less Wattage, it also doesn't do something what is needed. Only the smaller footprint (like 14nm now) implies less usage (theoretically) but what we do with that is get ourselves more cores again and what we just gained, was lost again (for power usage).

It is 100 times more important that we can use such a processor at ~500MHz (instead of 3GHz+) which no laptop CPU is going to accomplish. So this is about all the extra features in the processor which comsume power, instead of saving energy by leaving out things (which now slow down). For that matter it is even more crucial to have a motherboard which allows for this. I mean, no Asus will allow under 1200MHz, but our LGA2011(-3) ASRock's do ...

At least this is my personal idea about this, but hey ...
:) :)

Regards,
Peter

PS: In the mean time I see that we're quite explicitly off topic. Look at the title ... haha (but no probem, in this case).

Peter, this all sounds quite nice and very welcome.  

From a "whole system" point of view I would have thought that the best thing to do would be to do all of the Tidal searching and file manipulation from the Server and leave the AudioPC to do not much at all, not even RDP into it.  I do not understand how you can be RDP'd from your tablet into the AudioPC and be searching Tidal from there while music is playing in Unattended...I thought only one RDP session could be active at a time.  Are you sending the Tidal search data from the Server to the AudioPC in realtime, while the music is playing?  On paper the better way would be to do all the work on the Server and just have a slimmed down version of XXHE on the AudioPC that grabs the music files as needed and accepts play/stop/pause/volume/etc. commands from the Server.

Does this make any sense?

Cheers,

Anthony  

EDIT:  I think I understand "how" you are doing the Tidal stuff mechanically, but not really "why" you are doing it that way

As you know, I have Pete's XXHE PC here with the 3930K (I assume) and I have stripped it of non-essential hardware and added the Silverstone, RAM-OS, BIOS mods, fan mods etc. to get it identical to my PC but with the i7 instead of my Xeon cpu.

I have not done any proper listening to compare, and I will do soon, but first impressions are that the Xeon sounds better.  Not sure why...larger caches...more cores...blind luck...placebo, but those are my impressions whilst setting up the hardware.

Anthony,

That is exactly what I tried to say. So somewhere this must be a "mis print". But there will something be (wrong) in this :


Apart from tweaking, true.
But I never said anything about two being active. Your "RDP into it" puzzles me a bit, though.

The Music Server is the actual controlling machine (because the last in the chain) of the Audio PC. So that "RDP's" into the Audio PC. This must be, because else there is no connection hence no control. And / however, because we want to remote control the Audio PC, there's RDP in the first place; That we do this by means of a tablet that itself controls the Music Server, is only obfuscating - but no big deal (once you understand the principle).

Point (of misunderstanding ?) is that we have the Audio PC at our fingertips and it is there where we see all of our context, like that one album of Randy Newman missing in our library, and thus want to have that from Tidal. Thus, Audio PC gives the (under the hood) command to the Music Server PC which arranges for that, and messages back a "done !" to the Audio PC, we're still looking at. Now :

What you might envision is the non-sense of being at the Audio PC and we just as well see the Music Server PC to arrange for Tidal stuff directly;
Yes, that can be done, obviously. But now three things are not nice :

1. When I switched to the Music Server's screen I see that and not my Audio PC's screen (while I *am* listening to tracks and like to see which etc.);
2. When I need to change the volume etc. I need to switch to the Audio PC (but something could be made for *that* now, theoretically);
3. How to load the received album from Tidal ? Push it ??

Ad 3.
In the past I tried a few things with that too but it is almost moot and therefore not worth the effort. The really only difference in the end would be the RDP connection not needed and a somewhat more lean connection (which has to be there anyway). And to keep in mind : this is not streaming as such from the music server; it is downloading from it, disconnect that part (RDP remains) and play.

When we remain at the Audio PC all is in my view much simpler plus it is there already.

Peter