XXHighEnd

Hi,
A 1.0m cable will be shipped to NL soon, CoenP will be first to get it.
StanRay is next.
I would enourage anyone in NL interested to try it out during its tour there.
After that it will head to Juan, and then to UK (Mani)
Thanks,
VJ

Hi,

the tour is a very good idea :good: :yes:

Joachim

Ok guys I need your help, for the best possible approach for this tour. I'm not familiar with the easiest transit b/w countries. First it is scheduled for NL. From there I need your input.
 
Here is the list by country, which will be updated with new entrants.

NL
CoenP
Stanray


Spain
Juan

Gr/Swiss
michaeljeger

UK
Mani

VJ,

If this is not first come first serve, then think something like this (I'll name countries with existing NOS1(a) customers only) :

From north to south (for the other way around start at the bottom ;)) :

- Finland
- Norway
- United Kingdom
- Netherlands
- Belgium
- Germany
- Austria
- Switzerland
- France (the one in here will never announce himself)
- Monaco
- Spain
- Hungary
- Serbia (there it will be lost, so good idea to have that as the last one).

All will do fairly well with normal mail and including a 500 euro ensurance count 20 euros for the mail costs per transfer. Shipping will be 2-3 days from each country to the other, supposed that the sequence I mentioned is obeyed.
Not so for Serbia (sorry you there).

And who was the guy I sent something in to in NL for 3 times in a row, all lost ? I forgot (banned it from my mind). So he must be counted out. LOL.

Did I forget a country ? please say so.

VJ, I must say, very nice initiative. I'd also have to say though that if the list grows significantly maybe the manufacturer/supplier can consider two of them to go round ? I suppose he finds it worth while if the list is large enough anyway.

Peter

Ahahahah  :smile:
Next time you better spend few cents more and send envelope as registered mail. You know, the ones with big "R" sticker and some numbers on them :)

Now seriously, since there is no "a" or "B75" NOS1 here (AFAIK), plus Serbia is not member of EU community, there would be additional expense on receiver's
account on import tax + duty fees (approx 30% on goods + transport value) plus additional 'trouble' w/ Customs Officers on returning the goods, think it's
much easier to circulate the cable inside EU countries only.

Brgds,
George

Hahaha, challenged you eh ? Yes, I could have put a couple of beers on you responding first.
But you also touch the subject I wanted to leave out in my post because I thought it would come up anyway. So, those taxes ...

People who ship the cable should take care to ensure the cable for 500 euros BUT not indicate that value. Merely think about 15 euros or so. Now the tax will be free (or otherwise almost be free) while the cable is still ensured for 500. Especially with normail mail this will work, though it may depend a bit on the ensured money. So think like this : I can choose (over here) for standard ensurance (50 IIRC) or "more" and the more is maximised to 500 euros. Costs 10 more for the shipping. When the cable gets lost all can be justified and the how we'll see when it is necessary. One thing to remember : nothing is wrong with this because nobody is keeping the cable; I would be able to deal with this and when in order (when necessary I mean) I will do it.

In any event nobody is allowed to neglegt this or otherwise e.g. we will need to be 80 euros VAT + import duties (something like 14) and this is nonsense in this case. And, it can't be made clear (to customs etc.) anyway so forget about that (really).

Please notice that this will already be in order for when it is shipped from the US to here. And *now* I don't know about normal mail because while it should arrive it can take 4 weeks (but 1 week will be normal). So it's the combination of
a. being able to value it low
b. still be able to ensure that high.
And for example when we ship something this can't be done (this combination) unless it's a gift or repair or something like that.


Doesn't help, because especially there there's VAT in order (like 21% over here). This VAT will be charged by customs.
Companies can get back that VAT but most of us are not companies.

Peter

There is a possibility for YFS to use "ATA Carnet" and send f.e. cable to you (as Phasure) or any other company. ATA Carnet will allow clearing customs w/out
paying the duties/taxes, up to 12 months. This is normally used for all intl. exhibitions & fairs. Goods have to be returned or duties paid - Carnet closed.

As for insurance, think it is better to use PayPal and arrange each new recipient send full cable value to YFS (or VJ?) and YFS (or VJ) return funds to previous
person in the circle, upon new recipient receipt confirmation. Or delivery monitored through courier's tracking system. Here we do not have PayPal option "Send
Money to a Friend" (no P.Pal fees) but think it should be available in most EU countries?

Hey George,


This part is beyond me. Are you talking about ensurance of "not getting lost" by the courier and such ? Doesn't look like it ? Anyway I did ...

Regards,
Peter

Insurance is valid for one transport route = one transport document ('Waybill'). The way you suggested requires each person sending the cable ('Shipper')
to request insurance (pay extra premium for it) to cover the goods from loss during transport. If you request 'full insurance', goods value has to be declared
on transport document. Now 'beloved Customs Officers' have easy job.

The other way is your direct contract with some Insurance Company to which you declare shipment of goods and request insurance for it. For the company
this is standard and obvious route for doing business, but for individuals think it is harder or even not possible at all...

OK George. Then you know better. ;)
Conclusion = forget about it ?

No, not forget about it, just not involve insurance etc. It ads extra cost to anyone interested to hear this cable. Cable should be sent by courier service
like 'UPS Saver' (trackable) with declared value lower than eur 45, individual to individual. Inter-EU shipments as well. See EU tax-free allowance (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1414857270083&uri=URISERV:l31031).
PayPal coverage stays for cable owner, he's 'free of worries'. There should be some discount on the cable, that's how exporting goods is usually treated :smile:

Well, fine. So it is not ensured and who is paying for the cable when it gets lost ?

Next, shipping will cost 80-100 euros by such a courier.

Is it better now ? good.
:swoon:
Peter

PS: Others can continue the discussion as much as they like.

Oh boy,
This is more complicated than I thought it would be! There are some valuable suggestions here. I'll have to look into them in detail. (Is it me or one sees a great business opportunity in European courier service!!
VJ

No, not really VJ, it is well covered. It's Peter who makes confusion here with his lost packages (and insurance :smile:)

OK, some practicality, UPS Express Courier (2-3 days delivery):
Shipment from Rochester, NY, USA to Oene, NL
Customs value US$30 Weight 0.2 Lbs
Cost: US$ 59.18

Pick Up date: Monday, 8 PM Latest
Delivery date: Wednesday, End of day

Given rate is without any commercial contract with UPS. AFAIK, Peter has one, so transport should be (much) less than figure stated above.
I receive packages from Farnel UK (through UPS) and pay GBP 5.00 as flat rate to SRB.

I had zero lost packages with UPS / FedEx / DHL / TNT as international couriers. And have sent out thousands of envelopes containing one
or more Bill of Lading(s). Bill of Lading is transport document and what's more important, financial document. So I worry not on UPS service.
Dutch postal (non-registered mail) service, yes, very. And Peter confirms it but it looks like he blames other countries. Except for lost/stolen
NOS1 in USA. Intra-Europe delivery should not cost much. Registered mail, signature confirmed. Allways.

Hey Mr Troll ;) here are some facts :

Attached from top to bottom from here to (other way around does not matter), all in euros :

Norway
United Kingdom
Netherlands
Switzerland
Serbia (Troll's address)
USA (VJ)

200 grams (not 100 but doesn't make a difference) and ensured for 350 euros (otherwise 5 euros less).

Now I don't know in what world you live (OK, I do but you don't know ours) but this is reality.
FYI : Farnell's shipping is completely free to normal places like all over europe (or within the US (Newark)) except where you live, so now do some math on *that*, OK ? (hint : division by 0 is not allowed).

Then you make the nice assumption that I will be involved in all this shipping in the first place, which I will NOT (no cable is shipped to my place). And this is not because of your strange mood, but because I did not plan to anyway and I am not even involved.

Then you take it easily for granted that nothing will be lost in the first place, which is nice again but should count for you only and at your own risk. So what you are doing is telling e.g. Mani "hey man, don't worry because it will never get lost so don't ensure it" which is MOOT because that costs 5 euros. So let Mani answer this. Just as an example. He sends it out and it gets lost. Who pays ? you ?? No, Mani or if he's smart the receiver (but he will lose that in court).

I say it again :
Send it by normal mail which will cost 20 euros (23 I think) including ensurance for 500, while valuing it for 15 or so. This works. You can also send it for something like 13 euros without that ensurance (then it's ensured for a standard 50). The difference ? 10 euros. So THAT is what you are doing difficult about and THAT is how YOU confuse for a reason beyond me. And do notice that you are not saying that my super mail (with indeed risk on loss and which (*I* told about in the first place with an example of internally in Holland)) does not work. Instead you have seemingly better ways implying 350 euros loss of which you say it won't happen.
Serbian ways ? Come one now.

Do you sense some steam-up ? haha

Do notice that I am not saying that it should be sent from the US by normal mail (just because it takes too long).


I just showed the real practice when aranged from here (last screenshot below). Do notice that UPS is American which may make a difference and that there's also a ~1.3 factor currency difference in order (read : your shown USD 59.18 will become USD 70 because of that - may be hard to understand and no, I don't make a mistake). So for VJ this may be in order (I'm still highly doubtful because there's no way any American can send his NOS1 back to here for under 2 times the price I charge) but alas.


Don't f*ck with us. I had and one of them was to YOU and it was with TNT you mention. Your response ? I should have used UPS in a blaming fashion. Are you crazy ? you choose for that yourself for a device of (I forgot) 25 euros with 1 euro shipping costs (look at the screenshots what it would have costed you otherwise). Who sent a new one for (your) free ? me. So that's how it works. Sender sends something which gets lost and is responsible for it. In this case that is 350 euros on my estimate (but 350 USD without shipping, import duties, VAT and possible importer revenue, might he exist over here). So 350 euros will be on the very low side.).

I hope some feet are back on the ground now and mine already were. I also hope this is all taken in good spirit and that all I seem to need to to is debunking your sort of "accusing" while your own data is not right. Not for the practice as it goes here. And you will know too that what I showed (screenshots) *is* what you're invoiced (and then discount when having a contract).
:bye:
Peter

Just came back from wonderfull day at Danube river. Sunny, warm, good food. Not here as I see...

Ah yes Peter, I see your feet are very coool on the ground. "Mr. Troll", "F*ck with us", "Crazy". Nice indeed.
In my part of the world we do not talk like that. So, thank you Peter, very kind of you. Few weeks ago: "Change
your attitude" Wow! Thanks again!

I really don't know what made you so nervous? Forgive me, but that's the way I read your post.
Your mixing of the facts from the past, why? Why now?
Mixing local (Dutch) TNT postal service with service what we know as TNT International is very low punch you know.
And what's that "I should be charged this and this, instead this and that"? If I receive faulty unit I expect repair
without any additional charge on my account. What's wrong with that? Pay extra my side because it's cheaper for you??
Leave it aside, it was not pleasant experience for either of us. Costly one for both sides, yes.

O&O

George, you just received a warning by email.
And don't attempt any more to justify your "me mixing the facts" because you had your chance and didn't take it. Instead you drag in more nonsense. You are just out of line for reasons beyond me.


And in my part of the world we are more constructive and talk reality as it is over here what this is about.
You can't be jeleaous either :


assuming that excludes you on your own indication (apparently not knowing much about VAT anyway).
And Norway. Too bad for them.

For reference and your unjustified "change attitude", here :

Re: Cables with BNC Connectors/Adapters Are Generating A Superoir SQ (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=3026.msg32265#msg32265).

The cable will be shipped AM.

YFS/USB does Europe  ;)

VJ

The YFS cable has made it to NL.
So far we have Coen and Stan. Anyone else interested in NL, I  would  suggest to send me a PM.

Hi VJ, thanks for organising this. I'm looking forward to receiving the YFS at some point in the not-too-distant future.

Cheers, Mani.

I expect to pass it on to Stanley next week.

Is anyone interested in my impressions or should I reserve them for another time? I can imagine that it might bias your opinions...

regards, Coen

Hey Coen, I'd very much like to hear your impressions. You could p.m. your thoughts if you'd rather not post them on the form. Thanks.

Coen,

I just came here (really so) to ask for : and where are the first judgements ?
I say this because this seems a typicle thing to me which requires those step by step impressions. NOT because everybody can readily order one, but because it gives an objective "something" which in this case is better (at least for me) than trying to write that all down afterwards. I may be able to do this but this is not for everybody (including the required more lengthy posts for this).

First judgements always tell (me) something as long as we know that they are that. And the next (day) and the next.

So my idea really is first to not make it a secret and to next allow yourself to be "wrong" and recall that the day after.
BIAS ? we don't believe in such thing anyway (not on this forum) and we will be able to draw conclusions from everybody's (who joins of course) judgement.

Btw, I myself did not join (explicitly) just because I was not up to it (testing Blaxius sh*t). Now I am finally, so don't send it out over the Noth Sea right away, maybe. Not that I wish to be first or soon or anything, but it won't be efficient obviously.

Now let's have some first verdicts ... :)
Regards,
Peter

Here we go, if you don't want to know close the window now!

To set the stage first some updates of my reference. For years I've been listening to the stock cable but connector wear or something like that rendered the cable quite useless. Only when plugged in just right it would play without errors but seemingly only looking at it made it all bad again. So I ordered a few sets of higher quality solder mount USB2 connectors. These arrived quite recently and I put them on a cable with I thought was the second stock USB cable but in retrospect wasn't. A few years ago I messed with this cable conducting the 5 volt conductor experiments, so it was the perfect candidate for a first try.

Why all this introduction, well during the soldering I decided NOT to connect the 5 Volt wire at both ends. Now it has become a standard el cheap USB AB cable with ok connectors yet setup as a 'high end audio' 'data only cable'. So I have a cable that is electrically similar to the YFS cable and I can assess the contribution of the unconnected 5Volt to the sound.

Where it not that this cable appeared thicker than my dysfunctional USB stock cable and so it was a different cable after all. To avoid changing two things at the same time I warmed up the soldering iron and mounted the plugs on the stock cable. This time I was even smarter and made it a 'data only convertible' by enabling the 5V to be connected outside of the USB connectors. There are now 4 options: unconnected, at two sides connected and connected at either the PC or the NOS1a.

The first listening of the modified stock cable without the 5V connected was very interesting. There seemed to be a little more focus and cleanness to the sound, but also it was robbed of lower end volume and impact. This is especially noticeable on piano recordings and electronic stuff. After a few days this kind of sound did not do it for me, too bloodless, no drive. Connecting the 5V at both ends (normal USB cable) restored the energy but made it clear that it lacked some focus that I got used to.

Then I experimented with the other data only cable and got the same results as with the data only set up standard cable yet with a quite different sound as basis. The latter is interesting since the cables construction is identical to the stock cable. It only has a thicker mantle on all conductors and tinned conductors instead of copper ones.

Then arrived the YFS cable.

It feels heavy and well made. The outside looks like a fine metal mesh and within are some stiff conductors this is not your supple garden variety cable. You get what you (will) pay for.
Plugging in the cable and firing up the NOS1a supersharp focussed sounds emanated from the speakers. Voices sounded natural and smooth with enhanced dynamics. Particularly noteworthy of this first session were the extreme naturalness of the applause on the Avishai Cohen live album and strinkingly real ticks on the snares of his bass. This lasersharp concentration of transients was also present on other albums especially in the mid and higher end of the spectrum. Great guitars and cymbals. The clarity also revealed details and instruments that I've never heard before from my system and in many albums a space ore presence could be heard.

Like Peter indicated above it needs some more time to get the impression into a worthy report. The second day I got back on my feet. Despite all the dynamic goodness I was less enthusiastic about the lower end performance that remained less defined and powerful as I am used too. As by now will not surprise you, I recognized the similarity with the previous 'data only' cables. Even more so I found the supers sharp focus to cause the soundstage to be incoherent like 'each instrument/sound on its own'.
Furthermore I also noticed a haze in the sound that irritated me. For me this sound, ripped of its initial impressiveness, was not acceptable anymore. A disconnected it and started listening to the stock cable again to get a sound 'reset' and a second round for the YFS cable... To be continued  :).

My observation so far: I like full USB cables better than data-only cables.

regards, Coen

Well well. So one serious report about a USB cable in general and already seemingly clear properties pop up (about the no power = no bass). Very well done Coen.

Regards,
Peter

Hello Coen

Thanks for the very well written report.
When reading it yesterday, I actually got curious and unpacked Peter's stock cable and attached it to the PC-NOS1a.

I was quite surprised. Peters stock cable is more detailed in the highs and also the sound stage seems more coherent that the more expensive other cable I am currently using.
About low end defenition I am not sure yet, have to do more listening.

It seems that Peter really picked a great stock cable here.

- Michael

Hi,
interesting.

I’m using the data only YFS **Reference** cable in my system  since over a year and changed to a „normal“ cable  back today.

For the comparision I played  the  CD from Stanley Clarke

 http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Garden-Stanley-Clarke/dp/B001VFM0QU/ref=sr_1_10?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1416399145&sr=1-10&keywords=stanley+clarke

first two tracks, where we can hear lots of an acoustic bass and  cymbals.

First impression with the 5V powered cable, a little bit more ambience, the sound of the cymbals is more room filling, and the acoustic bass got more body, but not more bass overall.

The orientation/location  of the instruments  decreases in the soundstage, bass strings sounds less precise, and the cymbals don‘t sound right anymore. With the YFS **Reference** cable I hear at first the click on the cymbals, and then immediately the sound of the „shell“ follows, which I don’t hear with the „normal“ cable.

Conclusion for me: The YFS **Reference** cable is more accurate and I see no reason to go back to a 5V USB cable. But we know, every system sounds different, and we have to evaluate what cable creates  the best sound in our system.

Joachim

Edit: I'm using the YFS Reference USB cable, maybe this creates the difference.

Which is not the one we provided with your NOS1 ?
Can you still find that ?

Regards,
Peter

Hi,

no, I can't remember. 
The beginning of listening with the NOS1 USB version was with a normal USB cable, then came a cable from Entreq which created a better SQ and then the YFS.

The YFS **Reference** has an extra/additional shielding and this influences the SQ. (keyword: every cable is an antenna)

Joachim

Hi,
I've compared 2 YFS cables, one Cu with Ag coating (V4, the model that you have), and the other pure Cu(custom). this is in comparison to the Phasure cable. Bass is excellent. I've listened to a 3m drum, which sounds like a 3m drum (sound pressurizing the room is disorienting). F4 takeoff, sound pretty authentic (hold on to your pants .. etc). Subharmonics go well below 30 Hz. There is slightly better bass resolution with the YFS cable (actually overall resolution, and better SNR). There is a slight noise with the Phasure cable, one will notice better after hearing the data only cable. The edginess with the V4 is "reduced" with custom cable. Laser sharp imaging is seen with both.  There there are a few differences b/w the 2 models I tried, with sound staging and spectral balance when compared to Phasure cable.

Coen, I would play it for a few hours/overnight to maybe burn them in again. Maybe that might help.


**edit** The tour cable is Ref Data cable

Hi Peter,

I'm using the YFS Reference USB cable, and so we are comparing apples with oranges. I can't compare with the other "testers".

Joachim

EDIT: May I have a photo of your by-pack USB cable that I can dig it out. Thanx

Thanks for the reactions, lets’s keep sharing and experimenting!

Now back to the topic: Round three for the YFS cable.

Yesterday night I revisited the YFS cable and used some different music. It may have to do with a little more break in or something electrical in my system but the sound was a little smoother and I had to revoke my (second) opinion about the bass. The bass is deep and as defined as Windows 7 will ever be able to go. I support the postings of today about this topic. Anyway it seems that the stock cable emphasizes the mid bass and that’s where the power and drive live, but the YFS has the edge on the frequency extremes.

Now the lack of coherence remained. This was clearly demonstrated by ‘Don’t give up’ from Peter Gabriel. Perfectly separated instruments pinned in the air but they seemed not to care about each other. The pom-pa-pa-pam bass line was totally dissected from the music and there was just no impression of Kate and Pete singing together, just two voices doing their thing.
Also here the mid bass leanness robbed the song of its usual power. How different this sounds with the stock cable is almost laughable.

When listening to music like this with the YFS cable it occurred to me that the cymbals and snaredrums are a little ‘dry’. I think this is because there is an emphasis on the transient, neglecting the aftermath or decaying echos and imho this is exactly the reason why it is lacking coherence. Decays and image size are much more apparent with the stock cable. This could be a break-in thing but I noticed it on many albums so it is definitely resulting from the cable.

Now hearing al this cleanness, broadbandness and dynamics, there is something to be desired with the stock cable. Maybe because of the modifications, maybe because it is so it could use a little more of that. Holistically I presently still prefer the stock cable because of the drive and musical coherence.

Caveat Emptor: the stuff I describe here is my honest -analytical- opinion about the cable within the limitations of my system. For some observations it is hard to discern which plays the greater part of the observation. So this is only very preliminary since only three of us have heard the cable in their systems.

As a closing remark voor today it is a very interesting experience that the 5V connection makes a difference as do the used materials. I would not have expected it to be of this importance in a data transport that terminates in a perfectly isolated receiver. Now that we can tune the sound somewhat with different USB cables is nice but not desirable, we should actually be trying to find a solution that stops/minimises the noise from creeping in at loopholes. It also raises the question why the cable does what it does. Does it filter out noise or does it just more transparently transport the signal which includes the better transport of noise (implying more noise)?

To be continued!

regards, Coen

Hi Coen,

What are your thought about the image size, size of the soundstage (i.e. classical), and the spectral balance when compared to the phasure cable?

regards,
VJ

Hi Coen,

You are writing amazing reviews!!  :good: (Peter too)

Strange things are happening within Audio.

First, the YFS cable ist fast, VERY fast!!!

Coherence: During a test with the nickel plated BNC/RCA adapters I had the same impressions, but with the LINDY (gold plated) adapter coherence is back again! Strange, very strange, but that's the case on my system.

A good sample/test is the track 6 of the following CD.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belvedere-Beady-Belle/dp/B0012K5PX4/ref=sr_1_8?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1416428654&sr=1-8&keywords=beady+belle

Let's see/read whats going on during this cable test??!!

Joachim

Guys,

Just a clarification.

This is the "Ref" Data USB cable on tour. Not the V4 as I originally mentioned.

Rgs
VJ

Hi VJ,

I'm letting the cable play till tomorrow and we'll see what that brings.

For now:

Besides the traits I allready mentioned, I'm tempted to say that the YFS extends a little more beyond the speakers (width/height) and is a more detatched from them. I have to say depth is comparable but in both cases not on par with the best I remember. Please note that I have allways found it difficult to hear the illusion of depth in a stereo system even when it was obvious for others, maybe I'm not that impressed by the effect so far. No problems with depth IRL.

The stock cable presents everything quite a bit larger. The stage is therefore much more filled with sounds and music.

I'd say tonality is similar between cables with the YFS doing the loudness thing better and the stock cable presents tonality differences between recording a tad better.

Oh and tonight I specifically listened to the decay and it remains (too) short. During the tone there is richness but when it stops all vanishes very fast. This phenomenon is also typical for cables that need burn in...

Regards, Coen

Hi Joachim,

I also encountered this effect during the tuning of my diy amplifiers. I'm very sensitive to it and it can make or break usage of the component.

The worst I've ever heard this effect was with a couple of very expensive Cello amplifiers. You could almost walk around the instruments, but they sounded like being played by rocks. And let's not forget my win8 trauma wich is rooted in the same allergy.

Glad you warned me about the bnc adapters, because that was a similar experience.
 
Regards, Coen

Then I may have news for you Coen. But only because my memory seems to be OK for longer terms.

What I recall is that you are very subject to phase stuff. Uhm, *if* that was you indeed of course. So, don't have a problem at some normal distance, but feel the problem when closer by. Remember ?
Obviously this will have been so because of not precise speaker placement. At least that's what I think when this "problem" emerges.

But now think Windows 8 and its ever (more past) problems which everybody described as "phase problems" ...

Peter

OK, my turn to say a few words about the YFS USB cable.

First a big thanks to VJ for organising this tour.

I collected the cable at Coen's personally, and so we were able to chat a little. From Coen’s description above and our chat I got an expectation or prejudice that this cable would not be my cup of tea, because I generally don’t like systems that have razor sharp images and very prominent  “individual instruments”, because that is not how I hear life music in acoustic spaces. It often is kind of clinical and lacks naturalness, tone and intergration. But I was wrong.

Remember, I have a different set up compared to Coen. The NOS1 is not yet “a” (but will be soon). My speakers are full range magnetostatics (not electrostatics!), so essentially I’m listening to aluminium foils with an 1 ohm impedance and therefore I'm convicted to large powerful amps.
 
I listened to various album, like Andy Narell (Slow Motion), Miles Davis (In a Silent Way), Tomasz Stanko (Lontano), Kraftwerk (the Mix), Gentle Giant (the Power and the Glory), Beethoven (String Quartets), Willy Deville (Miracle), Tool (10000 Days).

I agree with Coen that the YFS is detailed and reveals more information compared to the stock cable. The stereo image is wide and deep and it all sounds fresh and natural. I do understand Coen’s remark that “the super sharp focus to cause the soundstage to be incoherent like 'each instrument/sound on its own'”, but in my setup and in my perception this is a pro. Some rock albums from the seventies I only play in the car, because they tend to sound “overflowed” and messy, when the music becomes full, especially at high volumes. The YFS now gives “space” to the music it needs and suddenly those albums sound better in my living room. I even could listen to “ELP’s Pictures at an Exhibition, which I have not be listening to since the introduction of CD.
 
Furthermore I think that the low end performance is also better, maybe not a room resonating, sloppy bass, but a tight and well defined bass that I think is more real and involving.  All in all, I like this cable and it gives me a real and natural sound.

I’m very curious how it will sound on the NOS1a. If that can be arranged I will report on that.

To be continued . .
 
Stanley

Coen and Stan,

Thank you for the kind words. I would request anyone else in the EU interested in trying out the cable, sending me a PM. The cable is heading to Michael, (GR) and next to Mani(UK) otherwise.

Regards,
VJ

Looking forward to get the cable to test.

Sent Stan my contact data.

Regards, Michael

So here an official report from someone who unofficially got hold of the YFS ...
Skip if you want to remain objective ...

---

I listened to various album, like Andy Narell (Slow Motion), Miles Davis (In a Silent Way), Tomasz Stanko (Lontano), Kraftwerk (the Mix), Gentle Giant (the Power and the Glory), Beethoven (String Quartets), Willy Deville (Miracle), Tool (10000 Days).

I agree with Coen that the YFS is detailed and reveals more information compared to the stock cable. The stereo image is wide and deep and it all sounds fresh and natural. I do understand Coen’s remark that “the super sharp focus to cause the soundstage to be incoherent like 'each instrument/sound on its own'”, but in my setup and in my perception this is a pro. Some rock albums from the seventies I only play in the car, because they tend to sound “overflowed” and messy, when the music becomes full, especially at high volumes. The YFS now gives “space” to the music it needs and suddenly those albums sound better in my living room. I even could listen to “ELP’s Pictures at an Exhibition, which I have not be listening to since the introduction of CD.
 
Furthermore I think that the low end performance is also better, maybe not a room resonating, sloppy bass, but a tight and well defined bass that I think is more real and involving.  All in all, I like this cable and it gives me a real and natural sound.

I’m very curious how it will sound on the NOS1a. If that can be arranged I will report on that.

---

Yeah, you got that right; This is Stanley's text. But you know, after I played the first 5 tracks of Allan Taylor - Leaving at Dawn, I went to the forum and looked what Stanley wrote about it, because it came to me that I had read very similar to my impressions after these 5 tracks and after reading it again I seriously thought to copy-paste his text with a small note under it from me : Exactly that.

I heard his guitar so super clear and precisely how I think metal strings from such a guitar should sound - and all futher what Stanley wrote that I thought : Okay, it is again Coen who is bothered by too much detail or so (his W8 vs W7 bugging).
But I'm afraid I must say this did not last long ...

Being in the mood, next up was some collection album from B.B. King. "See how the blues come trhough" was my thinking.
"Oh f*ck, that isn't the best recording" was my after 5 seonds thinking. But in the next 10 I was thrown a "this isn't B.B. King, right ?". My answer : it is, but it's an oldie. Maybe it is even mono (and I already shut it off).
Next, again with Stanley's post in mind, I thought to once again try the Machine Head "low high frequency" album; If Stanley is right, this one should work for the better. Let's have some Smoke on the Water.

Now my new audiophile collegue here was a pestering one (aren't we all ?") because now within 10 seconds I was asked whether this was Deep Purple for real. "Women in a bad mood" was all I could think at that moment. They never pick the music, and in a complaining mood they complain about everything. Bye.
But it sounded strange. Very strange. Hollow like. It is a bit in the first place, but now too much of it.
Okay, on to pestering Women from Tokyo from Made in Japan then.

Apparently no need to again complain from the woman with the bad mood, but this time it was me saying after thee minutes "doesn't this sound strange ?".
-> Told you !
Ah, oh.

Then with some test signal ambient sh*t music in the middle, I got the hunch of playing one which I played the night before and which suited me very well. Had to, because otherwise I couldn't find "it" in the other test signal music. That should dig out something ...

And then I thought - no, was sure to hear "no speed". No speed at all in the high frequency on/off synth sounds. OK if you don't know the track, but not OK at all if you know what "it can do".

So now I knew how to proove that : Safri Duo.
Safri Duo is all about very fast drums (like roto toms) and that too I played the night before. Yes, if something was slower than that would show it.

After 30 seconds this was my share (apart from me myself not liking it at all) :
-> Hey, what are those guys hitting today ? plastic buckets ?? All now sounds the same man !

There you go.

I must tell you, although this analysis lasted just less than an hour, at first I couldn't make sense of what really was going on. Highs are as crisp as Stanley described it (I mean, in a context I can easily understand, but Coen described it too), but I couldn't find what was actually lacking. Bass seemed better and such (and really all what Stanley described), but nothing worked. And even after I found that it is sheer speed lacking, I still could not make real sense out of the "not working" like with Deep Purple. And that in combination with Allan Taylor which I regarded no less than beautiful (this is also about the songs / lyrics and how it beautifully matched).

Just within 60 minutes I took out the cable because I regarded it a further waste of time. Back to the 1$ one.
Also back to Allan Taylor, and only then I could see it ...

There is so, so much more information in those same tracks that you don't even recognize it. But what happened in reality ? with the YFS there were three things playing only : the guitar, the voice and the slowly roaring bass guitar. Yes, all matched. All were as profound and beautiful. But with the 1$ cable there are a 100 sounds more and the first to disappear from the main scene are the guitar and the bass buitar. Ok, in all honesty, I think the bass guiter did less on its job of the deeper roaring with the 1$.

So 100 sounds more, and then to think that with the ambient test signal stuff I had in mind that this cable was the opposite of a black background, but I couldn't get consensus with myself about it. Really strange. (Allan Taylor changed from black background to the 100 sounds more)
Also really strange that the quite (nice !) sharp higher frequencies somehow do not contribute at all to the detail and speed. So the frequency of them must be elsewhere than that which implies the speed (dynamics). Say 8KHz where 2KHz is required; I don't know.

Before I knew it was about the lack of speed, I could not find any out of balance idea in my mind. What I did see all over though is some phase anomaly thing. And you know, ALL sounded nasal. First remark about this was B.B. King "beeping" as I was told. All I knew at that time was that indeed no B.B. King was singing. But later I found the nasal thing all over and of course I don't know how it can happen. Inside out hollow sound everywhere. And well, if that can be explained by a lack of speed, fine. But how the lack of speed emerges ?

Stupid stuff !!
Peter

Hi,
now I do have problems!

A)
- Peters  impressions about the YFS cable in conjunction with the Blaxius can be confirmed.
- The disadvantage of the $1 UBS cable on my system is, the depth of the soundstage is not present.  A 2D image only, with the YFS a 3D soundstage is there (and nice voices), but  .... see Peters comment.

B)
- I exchanged the Blaxius with the “old” RG 223 and played with the YFS cable. The SQ is similar to A) with a $1 UBS cable, but with a 3D soundstage and a slight harshness in the voices.
- Replay with the “old” RG 223 and the $1 UBS cable. The 3D soundstage is gone and a slight harshness in the voices**is present** too.

At present the best compromise in my system is the YFS USB cable with the RG 223.

The “expedition” for the best USB cable with the Blaxius goes on.

Joachim

P.S. I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a lot of amazing music listening sessions.

Hi,

I read Peter's post two times over and I can only remark that we have come to the same conclusion. That is somehow the YFS ' doesn't work' (like Peter Gabriel) and that there 100 things reappear with the 1$ cable. We have different reactions to them and different descriptions too. I.e. for me the latter brought fabric to the music again and an improvement in timing that makes, at my home, the music sound more like, eh, music.
I also noticed a more midrangy and less dynamic (hollow?) sound with the (modified) standard cable but took no offense in it.

Now I'm using/testing the bashed Supra cable with presents itself as quite the opposite of the YFS in bass slam and crystal clear highs. I have been spinning all genres and didn't get annoyed by any of it, with is good in itself. If anything I would consider this cable (also) to 'reduce speed' as an expense for a better tone and coherence. However I crave more attack from it. Mind you this is a 5V powered cable.

Before the Supra I've been playing with the 'custom' 'USB only' cable to no success. Though 'faster' sounding like the YFS it focuses too much on the attack leaving too little room for tone (harmonics, decay). I couldn't make out what percussion actually was played. Eventually I found it to sound messy too, as in mushing up crescendos.
Supra lets you discriminate the drums much better as they sound more like the real drum except for the fierceness of the attack when hit by the stick. I've been paying special attention to this in comparison with I a live concert of Manu Katche I attended last week. Though not through a recording chain, the instruments were processed and amplified during playback. Noteworthy to me was that it had all the traits that i think are important for good audio playback so these traits must be contained in the recording material somehow too. I more than once doubted if this were the case.

The USB story is far from over yet, but a pattern is already emerging!

regards, Coen

Two words
"Dielectric relaxation"
 ;)

Interesting, can't wait to listen again with the NOS1 transformed into "a".

For completeness, I don't use the Silverstone card anymore and now use an USB 2 mobo connection.

Stanley

Hi,

lowered the (driver) USB Buffer size from 4ms (since a week) to 8ms (back to the previous setting on the laptop)  and there are improvements (using Blaxius) with

A) $1 USB cable - a better 3D image
B) YFS cable - more "sounds" 

Joachim

Edit: Everything sounds normal again with the YFS

Thans Joachim,

Great suggestion!

Regards, Coen

Guys,
My experience is that, a lot of things can go wrong when changing cables ... i.e. USB. The same cable can sound all over the place, related to DC, grounding, dielectric relaxation, or other unknowns, some of which might not be related to the cable itself.
When I had 2 models of the YFS, I kept going back and forth between 3-4 cables, and in the end things just did not right, with any cable.
VJ

Just wondering when the YFS touring cable might be back in the US? Am looking forward to hearing it in my system. Currently I'm using a 6 foot, V4 version of the YFS data only cable with very good results. Am looking forward to seeing if there is a difference with the reference version. Since having my DAC upgraded to the "a" there is a huge difference between my YFS cable and my $1 usb cable. The YFS cable just sounds completely natural with no loss whatsoever in detail in all frequency ranges. Another way of saying this is that the sound feels like there is no added electrical hash causing distortion at high volume levels. The result is that it is easier to play way too loud. I guess if your first impression with the YFS cable is that there is something "missing" with the sound, then turn the volume up. What's "missing" returns, but not as distortion.

When I swap in the $1 usb cable, which mostly has been my go-to cable the last few years, the first impression is that it sounds better because the sound seems more fresh or alive (Switching to W8 is very similar). However, within 5 minutes that fresh sound, which feels like a shift in emphasis to a higher frequency range, soon leaves me with a "not right " feeling; I can no longer play "way too loud" because the distortion becomes totally clear and objectionable. So, for me, I think I prefer the slightly dry, woody, but "beautiful" sound of the data only cable to the perky, but noisy sound of the $1 cable.

Hi Brian,

I think I completely understand what you are saying.
But what you're also (explicitly) saying is that something which is not in there in the first place, can "luckily not distort". This latter is my own interpretation of course, but it would 100% resemble what I heard from the Reference. Just nothing in there to begin with.

Now of course you can try to tell me that I didn't play loud enough, but ... you have an SPL meter, right ?

Anyway, apples and organges because we're not talking about the same cable. Ehm, for the YFS part of the comparison, that is.
haha

Thanks for sharing, as usual !
Peter

I seriously doubt anyone could ever fault you for "not playing loud enough."   :)

You got my point.

And mind you, I was not saying that you are wrong or right. I do tempt to say though that the more "freshness" should be the opposite of being filtered (however that works) and that over here this freshness does not exhibit in distortion.

Of course you forgot that your system is crucially different in one area : the 75R thing. And the difference over here between what you now have to that regard and how it became in final stage over here, I'd call huge. And now exactly in that "distortion" area.
But you will see ! (I hope)

Peter

I've had the YFS cable here for a while but only got around to trying it this evening. And BTW, I purposely didn't read any comments on this thread beforehand (though I've just skimmed through them now having put the YFS into the system).

I chose track 1 from 'Best Of Vaya Con Dios' because it can sound a bit sharp. I started with my current Tellurium Black Diamond USB because I'm used to its very warm and full sound. The honest truth is that I listened to exactly 10 seconds before stopping the music and taking the cable out. It sounded detailed, but way too forward and 'shouty'. Also, I'm sure there was a haze of distortion around everything. Edgy. Metallic. Listening to Vaya Con Dios's voice, she just didn't sound like a human being.

I don't particularly like the Tellurium cable - it's just too smooth and dark sounding for my liking. But hell, at least it's listenable. The YFS is definitely not for me. I'm sure I could have played around with settings to tame it a little, but quite frankly I just didn't have the inclination.

In any event, I'm going to hang on to the YFS until the Clairixa cable arrives. I'll post a follow-up then... hopefully it'll last longer than 10 seconds.

Mani.

I was just asked what I was laughing about in such outbursts. I actually still can't type because of it.
... still ...

Hi,

Dani Kleins  voice on “The Best Of Vaya Con Dios“  is really a “challenge” for the ears and the system, especially the first track. I’m  listening to this CD on the PC via WIMP and the highs in her voice have a tendency for possible distortions on some tracks in my opinion, but the voice is quite ok to listen to after a longer time.

Voices are always a heavy burden (challenge) for the power amplifier to get all the nuances to the speakers/drivers.

Since I’m most of the time listening to the music in adjacent rooms (toilet) the YFS cable is at present the preferred USB cable and the SQ of the voices is the best I ever had. Very natural whoever I play (Frank Sinatra, Al Jarreau, George Benson, Harry Belafonte, Sammy Davis jun.,  Flora Purim etc. and violins) Two words: Great sound.

Peter wrote in two threads that he heard some new details he didn’t hear before (or remember) in songs using a new cable (Blaxius) a couple of weeks ago (Mannheim Steamroller). My first idea was, strange, very strange, because on my system I had no problems .............. . To be honest, some tweaks at the Orelo MKII amps might not be a bad idea.

I’m curious to listen to the Clairixa in the near future.

Joachim

I have to agree, though I'm using he V4 version of the YFS cable. It's incomprensible to me that anyone could find the YFS cable forward or "shouty," metallic or edgy; that is down right bizzare given my experience with the YFS ( see Feb 2, 2015 post above.) Give Claire Martin a listen, incredible vocal nuances. However, I certainly can't doubt Manis's and Peter's respective experiences with the cable as anything but bad. (Well I do feel that even a cable that's broken in needs to settle into a new system, so maybe 10 seconds is a bit too quick?) Is it the amp's? Don't know, but I believe that my BD Design amp is pretty much the same as the ones in the Orelo MKII's.

I'm looking forward to hearing the Clairixa too.

Mani,
The more I listen to different USB cables, the more I feel there are way too many variables to keep track of. I have a pretty good idea where YFS cables may shine, Or fail miserably. A lot will have to do with distortion, it's exaggeration or dimunision. Cables act like conduits or to a certain degree tonal manipulators I.e. Increasing or decreasing distortion.

YFS cable did not work  for me as well, may be it had to do with the above, or a whole host of unavoidable variables in  hifi .. ......
But, I had it for at least 10 hours before I found out the issues,   Lol.... I must have a slower slew rate! Honestly I felt it might have to do with grounding! Who knows?!

Anyways what got me excited was the gain in SNR .... Might seem strange when there is so much distortion, but just generally, proper cable matching will result in at least 6dB gain in SNR. That is just with USB

Regards,
VJ

I would have to notice that part of my outburst of laughing was related to the opposite idea Mani put forward. I received a sort of opposite of shouting. And then the 10 seconds thing. So that latter quiter similar, but for very different reasons.

Audio ...

Hi Peter,

Yes, sometimes weird results are "evaporating", even during the day with different loads within the "public power lines" in our area (my suspicion).

After your comment about the YFS cable I fumbled with the XXH settings by increasing SFS up to 2MB and the driver USB buffer size up to 8ms, and I got a smoother sound with more ambience.

Joachim

YFS participants ...

What actually happened that we don't see reports any more ? Mani spitted out something by a sort of accident as it seems, but meanwhile it has been there, apparently.

Stanley, you had a sort of second round but we never heard anything of that ?
(The) Others ?

Peter

VJ (and all), I tend to agree with this. But it won't be about SNR literally. But for sure something which feels like that. I think we generally can describe it as "hash". But in the end it is about how foremost the high frequencies can remain separated as they are (ahum, ?) or are smeared into a hash. Roughly this is "digital" to begin with, but the USB cable for sure can imply it, or be better at it.

I too talked about 6dB at least and what I notice of it is that the 6dB more expresses in the highs (measurable I mean). But it is a strange upside down thing. So what happens over here ?
When the cable seems "correct" my volume is that 6dB etc. higher and I don't really notice it. What I do notice though is the louder highs. This is strange because it would be the first reason to turn down the volume (we may not like these loud highs ... when bad !). So if I now measure the SPL, all plays normally at my sort of common 90dBSPL. One difference : when a cymbal hits or a woman voice sings, that now excurs to 96dB.

Yes, read it again. :scratching:

So what seems to happen (when the perceived better is in order) is that the LOWER frequencies (but say all under maybe 2-3 KHz) get less square but read : exhibit less of that hash, which allows the volume to be 6dB or so higher, while at the highest frequencies (say above 3KHz) nothing was wrong to begin with, this also doesn't get "attenuated" so to speak (which those lower frequencies do) and now the higher frequencies jump out and in good fashion. However, very dangerous because those higher frequencies *really* have to be in good fashion, or else the whole thing turns itself against you.

To be somewhat more emphasizing so you'll understand :
I very regularly measure the SPL from the speaker (think 2-3 times per days always), when certain music plays and I wonder. I always do that for the woofer section vs. the mid-high horn. If you pay attention to when to do that hence that both sections should be in fair balance, then after doing this 100s and 100s of times you will have learned how the relation is (and when to do it to have the relation equal(ly loud). So, this has always been the case and for the general music this is still so. However, the general music will contain cymbal hits and previously they could be disregarded (hardly let rise the SPL from the mid-high horn). This now changed. So think I'm always holding the meter for a second or 5-7 in front of the horn and then I have the general idea about the SPL. Today (with the Clairixa USB cable) that doesn't work well anymore, because in those 5-7 seconds almost always cymbals hit and the needle goes to 96dB because of that.

Peter

No second round with the YFS happened.

When the NOS1 returned as "a" - "75B" I passed the YFS to the next in line because I had the YFS for quite some time already.

Stanley

I'm going to put the YFS back in and 'force' myself to live with it until I get the Clairixa. Will report back with more impressions at a later date.

Mani.

Hi,
in other words, the noise floor is much lower and then other qualities in the audio chain are "suspect". In my opinion -amplification with a high resolution.

Joachim

Joachim,

We can't speak of a noise floor of a USB cable. I mean, there can be more or less noise implied by it, but this analogue noise is not able to smear or separate the high frequencies. This is because it is a digital signal and no audio wave form as such travels in that cable. Only "random" 1's and 0's, the 1's being a voltage of 3 or whatever and the 0's being a voltage of 0.2 etc.

So the whole phenomenon of SNR is not in order. Only if it implies a hammering via the (mains) backdoor on to the DAC and/or amplifier but then still there will be no single relation to the audio wave form.
And otherwise, of course, it can imply more or less jitter, be that via the back door (mains -> PSU) into the DAC or be that directly via the interface (which theoretically can not exist because of the isolation).

Regards,
Peter

Peter,
I think you explained the phenomenon in one of your earlier post very very well!
The increased SNR was my initial impression!
What this cable is doing to the "all Phasure" setup is adding higher odd order harmonics, which are cues for loudness. So this gives the apparent sensation of increased dynamics, that is why you were listening to the cable 6db below what you are on the Clarixia. Therefore the apparent increase in SNR, when details shout out. Took me a while to get this figured out,  ..... I.e.10 hrs :)

With lower distortion you should be able to listen louder without you ears telling you it's such!!

Regards,
VJ

Might be a good guess/hint!

see:

http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/46-06/staying_well_grounded.html

Joachim

Well,
It's been a few months since I auditioned the YFS cable, and most is from memory. Keeping things in timeline perspective is difficult. Few other USB cables have come across b/w then and now. The cable tour took way longer that originally planned. Overall intent was for all to know USB makes a easily noticeable difference, and to see its performance with different setups.
What I remember was that the sound was "wow" initially, totally 3D, and on listening longer, I.e. More than an hour or so continuously, the sound would change, with harshness and collapse of the sound stage. Then totally unbearable. So I thought about Di-electric relaxation.
Experiences so far indicate this cable has a hard time integrating with high efficiency horn speakers. Horns avoid a bunch of distortion a inherent in dynamic come drivers (not that it's doesn't have in own issues). Tube act like filters to a certain degree. Something along the audio chain is either reducing or counteracting the distortion in some setups, or the issue may not even exit elsewhere.

The possibility of the amps not being fast enough though I think is a bit off. The slew rate is somewhat of a hyperbole, just another indicator of the amplifiers band width. The slew rate if I remember right for amps in the Oreleos are more than adequate for audio reproduction as Hi-Fi. Oreleos have the best thought out configuration with individual amplifiers for separate channels, therefore reducing the load per driver during peak demand. Just as a side note here, the amplifiers power rating is for reproducing a particular note, power goes down to more than half if another note is added. How about music huh with complex notes ..? 
**edit**: That is why amplifiers sound different. They are clipping at one point or another. Technically speaking, if operated well within their power rating, all amps should sound exactly the same. This again brings in the point that TDH is just a small part of the equation. There are a few other related factors, but this is good for now.

VJ

Hi,

I do not hear on my system with "NO horns" the 6dB gain for the highs, and the tweeters are going up to 40KHz. There is a very balanced SQ with everything for the better (voices, drums, bass and guitar), except less air around the instruments in the listening position, but on the toilet/office the SQ is perfect.

Joachim

Johacim,

One explanation could be that the USB cable has no deleterious effect in your system.
Otherwise it could be related to grounding, some kind of filtering happening either at the speaker or crossover level.

VJ

Hi,

at present I'm using for comparisons (Vinyl versus CD rips) the vinyl rig too, and when the turntable is my reference, the YFS USB (data only) cable with "no ambience" sounds not right. The SQ of the $1 USB cable is then nearer to the vinyl sound.

Joachim