XXHighEnd

I use DBpoweramp but gosh when I rip my older CD's it has a nasty habit of cutting off the track before it has finished and starting the next track with the end of the previous track when playing back. I emailed DB and they say its the CD. Its more than one in fact its lots, so should I be ripping these track by track or is there something BETTER?????

Robert

Exact Audio Copy? See: http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

or perhaps in the future a solution in XXHE?

Johan

I cannot offer a solution, but FYI I have ripped a couple of thousand CDs with dBpoweramp and have never had this problem.

Same here. Never had this problem using dbpoweramp.

Anyone ever done an analysis of dbpoweramp v EAC? Is one supposed to be better than the other?

Please see attached.

I am shocked. I have ripped all my CDs with EAC. Does this * remark means that all tracks of all ripping programs were bit identical or that the average speed was determined by the maximum speed where the program deliveres the same results as with 4x? In the first case I would wonder where the sound differences should come from...?

I made a quick check and compared an EAC rip and an DB Poweramp rip with hexcompare. The files are identical except some zeros in the very end. Maybe it comes from different read into lead out setting. There can not be a sound difference.

Nah, I don't believe that 'report' at all.

I've been using EAC for years and years, and dBPoweramp for the last 2-3 years. Both use the 'Accuraterip' database to test the accuracy of the rip. Both rip at pretty much the same speed and produce identical results in total agreement with the Accuraterip database.

Oh, and they sound identical to me.

BUT... I use a 'true' plextor drive with the 'forced unit access' feature activated in both dBPoweramp and EAC. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT!!!

Mani.

see the text to the table

OK, so at least they admit that the results defy all logic - the files, irrespective of rip speed or ripping program, are bit-perfect, and yet still sound different to them - which I commend them for.

Now as us XX users all know, bit-perfect does not mean equal sound. Just change your SFS to verify this. BUT... this is at the playback stage, where loads of things seem to affect the sound. Two bit-identical files should sound identical when played back through XX. If they don't, then the only thing I can think of is that their location on the hard-drive matters. But I can't see how one ripping program could be consistenly better than another if this were indeed the mechanism that causes changes in the sound of bit-identical files.

I don't want to sound overly critical though because there's just so much that we don't understand right now. So the best thing is to probably try things yourself and see what you think. This is certainly what I do nowadays...

Mani.

Hey Mani!, what Plextor model would you recommend and where do I have to activate the "forced unit access"?
Could you explain why it is so important a little further?

Regards,
Juan

Hi guys I have to report I've just found a download only flac file converted to Wav by Db poweramp also has issue with stopping before song ends and starting at that point for next song. So can't blame CD ripping for this I suspect.

The man from db poweramp says this:It is more likely the cd has been mastered incorrectly, or you have a faulty drive which is reporting the toc incorrectly.

Further to the last report I've downloaded Foobar and low and behold the problem disappears so I've incorrectly blamed dbpoweramp when it in fact is a playback problem with either XXhighend or my computer setup. Any suggestions?

Lowering SFS to 50 has cured problem. Should I gradually increase SFS until this problem occurs then back of?

This is a conclusion I came up with awhile ago also.  I'm glad that I have xxhe rip the files again to the main drive... somewhat consistent? but who knows... I've stopped listening too closely now that I've reached the ripe ol age of 52.  I never compared ripping programs, but I'm glad I ripped the majority of my music using a plextor drive and their software.  Now I use EAC with what I hope are good settings... also.... and I always felt it mattered... I rip the whole album to a single wav/cue file... ya, I still think it matters... even though peter splits em hehe as he rerips em to the C: drive.  who knows... someones a little crazy




cookoo

At least *this* is something I agree with. Well, you knew that ...


PS: This "to the C: drive" does not happen when it's WAVs, unless you tell XXHE to do so ("copy to XX Drive").

I find this hard to believe, although *something* will be happening at your side ...

So, what you say is : "when I start at e.g. track #3, with the higher SFS I will hear a few seconds from track #2", right ?

No, I won't believe that. Your story must be different somehow.

Btw, to exclude all which can be involved, please take care that no .cue files are involved with your albums concerned.

Peter


PS: Maybe you should focus on something like "played track #2, then stopped; then started again at track #3 and in that situation I heard a few seconds from track #2". Now, *that* I would believe. But now investigate your DAC ... (not emptying the last buffer). Also try Engine#3 (WASAPI) vs Engine#4 (Kernel Streaming); there could be a difference.
Lastly, play around with Q1 a little; that too may change things.
And let me know of course.

That's from TAS, right ?
The first day that they write something with sense has yet to come (ok, my personal view, but look at that particular pressing; you will agree instantly :yes:)

Two identical files should not bring any difference that I can think of.

The processing coming along with it (like rip - play after 5 minutes or so), does.

The location where it is played from ? does.

There's some more.

Hi Juan, I mention 'FUA' in my first post in this thread: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1821.0

My Plextor is the original external 'Premium' model. The PX-'230A'  is supposed to be the best internal model. But both of these are going to be hard to find nowadays.

'FUA' may well work with other much cheaper non-Plextor drives though. The way to find out is to get a slightly scratched CD that is definitely in the Accuraterip database. Set FUA on (as I describe in the thread mentioned above) and then try to rip the CD. If the CD ripping slows down and the end result matches the Accuraterip database results, then FUA looks like it's working correctly. However, the creator of dBPoweramp (Spoon) still strongly recommends not using FUA unless you have a 'real' Plextor drive.

FWIW, I rip CDs at maximum speed using FUA and my 'real' Plextor drive - a new CD normally takes around 2 minutes to rip, with the results matching the Accuraterip database perfectly.

Mani.

Haha! You just cheerd me up. I like that expression.

Thanks Mani, I googled Plextor and yes it´s hard to find the authentic one.
Sorry but I don´t understand well how to activate FUA, what does it mean?: by adding '-usefua' in the command line. Or in other words, how can I do it in EAC?.

Juan

OK, to use the 'force unit access' command in EAC, this is what you need to do:

EAC shortcut
1. set up a shortcut for EAC (on your desktop, or wherever)
2. go into shortcut properties
3. add '-usefua' to target command line (see jpeg below)
4. go into Advanced, and select run as administrator (just to be on safe side)

EAC Drive Options
1. go into EAC drive options
2. Under 'Extraction Method', untick 'Drive caches audio data' (see jpeg below)

WARNING This method is only guaranteed to work with 'real' Plextor drives. Ordinarily, you should never deactivate the cache in EAC because 99.9% of drives have a cache that cannot be deactivated. In which case, your rip will go ultra fast, but you will be ripping in the equivalent of 'burst mode'... NOT GOOD!

Mani.

I just wondered ... is this not clear to only me ?

So, 99% of drives have a cache which can not be deactivated ?? Supposed this is true, than those drives are 100% useless.
I don't know whether it is true though, but it very well can be.

Never deactivate the cache in EAC ? Hmm ... I would say that you meant to say never *activate* it.

All summed up, no cache should be active anywhere.

Peter

Ah but that's exactly why it's important to get a 'real' Plextor drive and deactivate its cache using 'force unit access'.

If you untick 'Drive caches audio data', but don't actually deactivate the cache, you're in trouble...

The best thing to do is to use the 'Detect drive features' button. With 99.9% of drives, it will tick the 'Drive caches audio data' box automatically. However, with a 'real' Plextor drive, if you use FUA, it will automatically untick the 'Drive caches audio data'.

Anyway, as I said, there is an easy test. Get a badly scratched CD. If the drive does not slow down (almost to a stop) on ripping, then you're in the equivalent of burst mode.

EDIT: And there's always Accuraterip. If Accuaterip is verifying all your rips as accurate, then they are! In which case, totally ignore everything I'm saying...

Mani.

I can't say that you cleared up much from your previous post. Maybe read again both my post and yours I responded to. They look opposite to me.

:)

Peter, I understood your post perfectly.

We both agree that we really do not want to use the cache during ripping.

However, you believe that all that is required is to deactivate the 'Drive caches audio data' box in EAC. I believe that this will give you 'disastrous' results... unless you really bypass the physical cache in the actual drive also.

And there's only one way I know of to really bypass the physical cache in the drive - get a 'real' Plextor drive and use FUA.

But look, I researched all this almost 10 years ago now, and maybe a lot has changed since then?

Mani.

Haha, how do we have this misunderstanding ... could be my unknowledge (btw, I have had a Plextor (something like 600 GPB) right from when it existed - until it died (producing read errors (and thus write) which were NOT detected by EAC ... just saying)).


What I don't see is how the cache in EAC will *ever* improve on anything, except for read speed.
So, cache in EAC should be deactivated always.
And next, any drive with cache is unsuitable in the first place.

So ?
(I don't want to be your pain, and let's agree this is about the good advice for others)

Here's what the developer of dBPoweramp has to say about the cache:

"Caching is employed by the majority of drives to improve performance, but caching stops secure extraction: when a secure ripper tries to re-rip the same section a 2nd time, instead of getting audio from the disc, audio comes from the cache (which is the same as the first rip). A secure ripper must be able to detect and invalidate the cache (by reading more than the cache value before the section of audio desired)."

Read that last sentence very carefully (the emphasis is mine)!

If you deactivate the 'Drive caches audio data', then the ripper will NOT try to read more than the cache value. This is perfect... only if the drive has no cache (99.9% do have a cache!) OR if you've bypassed the drive's cache using something like FUA.

Now look, I don't want anyone to get paranoid about the 1000s of rips they've made. If you're worried, check a rip with Accuraterip - it's as simple as that!

Mani.

So ... why didn't you say that in the first place !
Yes, that is logic to me.

Ehm, how comes dBPowerAmp's developer talks about EAC ?
(which of course is my conclusion from it all)
IOW ... might this have been *your* conclusion in advance (and thus your layout about it) ... don't count on that. A cache is a cache, which is used by developers to its merits. It would sure count when this were about a buffer.
So, what Spoon says here I completely agree with. How this should shut off the cache in EAC (as a desire or requirement) ... I don't see.

I am not sure, but I suppose when you engage burst mode, the cache (in EAC !) should be enabled just the same. At least I would do that for clarity.
Btw, EAC has helptexts (ToolTips IIRC) on it all. That should say something about it ...

?
Peter

OK, I'd like to finish this exchange with something useful...

I have an internal SATA DVD drive that seems to perform as well as my expensive (and hard-to-find) USB Plextor Premium-U CD drive for ripping duties. It's a little bit slower when ripping, but the results so far have been identical. It works with FUA in dBPoweramp (I haven't tested it with EAC) and has so far matched the Accuraterip database perfectly with every CD I've ripped with it. Oh, and the drive cost me less than €20 (yes, twenty) from Amazon!

It is the Sony AD-7241S-0B.

I think this actual drive is no longer available, but a slightly newer version is, which costs, and I'm assuming performs, exactly the same.

Mani.