XXHighEnd

I have been running vanilla Windows 7 for some time. At the time I loaded "vanilla 7" I also installed NOS1 upgraded to USB and also installed new bass drivers in my speakers. Since that time there has been a substantial improvement to sound quality but there has also been a noticeable "hardness" and "edge" to the sound which was not there previously and which ultimately made the system tiring to listen to over long periods. I thought it was due to the new Hemp drivers running in - particularly as they are notorious for needing a long burn in time. Anyway yesterday I fully updated W7 which of course included installation of SP1. The improvement of sound quality is substantial - gone is the hardness and edge in the sound and there is now presentation of all that NOS1USB detail in a most relaxed fashion. The improvement is big enough to get me checking through my albums to see "what they sound like".
The lesson is simple for me - always make only one change at a time and check sound quality each time.

I guess something in Vanilla 7 can't have been working properly and SP1 fixed - well who knows - all I do know is that the only reservation I had about the SQ of my system has gone.

Paul

Paul, does this mean you installed SP1 and all the subsequent updates? I know when I first tried W7 with all updates it sounded terrible until I deleted them, including SP1. Maybe "they" heard us and have now included an update that tweaked the sound?

What to say ...

Ok, in all honesty, after being three weeks into Vanilla myself I started to doubt. I stopped playing the music where Vanilla seemd to excel in, and it wouldn't work. So, more bass in Vanilla, but it needed more normal music (instead of the Klaus Schulze type) to hear that the highs weren't right indeed.

In the mean time all -for me too- was maybe too new to easily judge, which I think included XXHighEnd's Minimize OS functionality which I had running in test for a while alright, but never saw "production live" until the first NOS1-USB had to go out;
It was that time that I had someone over, and just that morning I had setup another boot with SP1 again because I didn't trust it. That was a good thing, so now I could compare, which only started that afternoon together with the person involved, and it was easy to agree upon Vanilla :

- bass was more deep but not more tight (this goes together);
- The finesse in highs was not there anymore.

It was the latter which kind of started to disturb me in the first place, and the Vanilla-SP1 comparison showed that even Klaus Schulze's deep basses weren't accurate at all in Vanilla.
Since then I never listened to Vanilla anymore, which boot I, btw, scratched by accident the next day after this extensive listening test because of a Windows bug.
I have been happy since.

At least all the new NOS1-USB owners I informed as soon as I knew, but maybe I forgot a few, and maybe I forgot you Paul. I am sorry for that.

I think it should work out the same for everyone, just because of what I hear. That again the same roughness in the highs I talked about right when W7 was new. Indeed it sounds wrong to me.

Lastly I am fairly sure that more people know this since the "W7 Black Hole" topic than can be seen from the postings, just because everybody can judge for themselves but maybe did not dare to speak up. Anyway this is my fault, and I apologize. The upside ? you should be able to perceive better sound again if you're still on W7 Vanilla. This should be the case especially for those who went back to Vanilla before 0.9z-6 came out.

Never trust me all the way. For guide lines ? ok.
Above is another such example. :yes:
Peter

Hello every NOS1 USB users,

 
You may come across this post :
http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1820.msg18674#msg18674

Back then, to remove the edgy high, Peter suggested me to bring back SP1. I have never switched back to plain Vanilla again.

One word of warning, never update the Windows. Turn it off all the time.

Best
Praphan

Hi Boleary - yes fully patched up to date and sounding sooo good now that I am going to take an image of the hard disk just in case those nice people at Microsoft do something to spoil it  :) :)

Hi

I did try full Windows updates (on top of SP1) three months ago. At that point, SQ deteriorated dramatically.  Randomly, I even got severe distortion making the music unlistenable that I needed to stop and hit play button again.

The above was solved by removing all the updates.

Since Paul gets positive impact on SQ with latest updates, then there must be some new codes that fixed the issues. Better to mirror this OS image as a safe back up.

I am pondering if I should give it a try. Paul, do you recall the SQ of plain SP1 before loading all the updates?

Thanks
Praphan

I just applied full updates onto Vanilla W7 so it is bang up to date now. Unfortunately I did not have the opportunity to listen to SQ just after SP1. SQ quality sounds as good as I could imagine at the moment maybe I need more time to listen to it but it sounds completely satisfying now.

Hi Paul,

it would be nice to see a picture from your "Windows update" folder to know the fixes installed on your PC.

Thanx

Joachim

Installed SP1 last night and the sound changed for the better....I think. Hard edges in the high end disappeared but the music felt a little veiled or muddy sounding. May end up lowering SFS but need to do a lot more listening first.

I did not install all the updates after SP1 and am intrigued by Paul's findings......at least we can't say it's boring around here.... :)

Here are the updates applied not sure how useful it will be but best of luck anyway. I can only compare between vanilla and what I have now but I do not want to stop listening. I suppose it depends on the the system but it really did not sound quiet right before.

I see just now that there is another batch of updates to be downloaded but I think I will stick with what I have right now - looks like I will need a dual boot to test new updates (provided that dual boot does not affect SQ AArrrggghh!!!). Or maybe I will just stick where I am and enjoy  :)

All the best

Paul

The best example of the difference between Vanilla and SP1 is this.

I bought Jamie Cullum "Catching Tales" recently and played it first with Vanilla 7 and it sounded truly awful one of the worst recordings I have heard (it is recorded at least a full 10dB higher than most CD's). Recorded at a very high level with bass almost out of control. I just listened to it now with SP1 and it sounds like a different recording. OK this is never going to be a great recording but it really sounds fine now - bass is under control lots of detail really sounds quite good - not sure how there can be such a big difference but there must have been something very wrong before. Maybe it was just my system but no more Vanilla for me he he.

Note for Peter - still lots of "Tinky Winky" bits but now just soo ooo smooth" he he

Paul

Hey Paul,


As we all know my english is not the best, but I sincerely like to put forward my advice to pump up the volume a little.
And have a fine glass of whiskey of course. Make that 5.

Peter
:swoon:

Which does not enlighten my senses necessarily.

Joachim

Hey Joachim - I recommend the whisky before reading through my list of W7 updates - believe me it will help  :sos:

P

:seeyou:

Hello Paul & Peter,

that should be joke. Typical German eh?

Joachim

Hi Paul,

After two days struggling with my PC to apply the upgrades and make it works correctly I arrived to two conclusions:

1- With the SP1, all the important upgrades and none of the optional ones the sound is consistently oustanding, being the bass the most noticeable improvement which is now even tighter and deeper. I´d say that the sound is at least as good as the first time when I listened it with only the SP1. The difference is that now I get used to the sound and I´m still amazed.

2- My computer seems to work even faster and smoother now with all the upgrades.

At the end I´d recommend to give a try to the upgrades.

Thanks, Paul!

Juan

So, here is what I did and how the sound changed:

1) updated my W7 HP to SP1 with few updates after SP1 according to findings in this thread
2) upgraded HiFace MK2 drivers (started to use Young's driver instead of Hiface's as several people have conformed as sounding better)
3) installed the very latest XX (before was couple minors back)

Bottom-up:

Bass: improvement incredible. Depth more, clarity and power. Now when I turn up volume, bass gets stronger and goes more into floor them comes up under me in my couch. Before, it was dirty and cloudy.
Middle: not so steril as before. Seems like a bit more mud in there, however resolution still high. Have listened 2 albums so far, but I guess must get used to that.
Highs: Not so sharp as before. Still crystalline and mild, but less sparkling. I need to get to used to that.

Overall sound picture has moved down. It is more kind of attenuated I'd say. At higher volumes it is perfect as sound does not attack you, it rather fills the space.

Afterall, very good indeed!!!! Thank you Peter for your work and do not pay attention to my topic with JPlay, just wanted to share the new finding and my experiment with both players. (Haven't bought the other one :))

Ivo

Did you install these one at a time and listen or did you perform all and listened?

I'm particularly interested in the use of the Young Hiface driver on your Hiface M2. Is this correct?

I can't find much evidence of the Young driver being better that's clear and used with W7.

I use a Benchmark 24/192 similiar to your dac.

Event sequence: SP1, Young driver, XX.

I listened to the sum of that because I had no time to do one by one. Overall I think the biggest + comes from SP1 and then the driver, leaving XX last this time because I was using 0.9z-6 version before.

Ivo