XXHighEnd

There was a nice surprise on Friday afternoon, my NOS1 was delivered back having been lovingly converted by Peter to NOS1 USB spec..... Fantastic !  :)

Peter sent a special NOS1 USB driver / control panel and a copy of V09-6, then it was time to set about getting eveything going. As Mani mentioned, the NOS1 USB connects in about 10 mins, "zimple !!" (as the meerkat says   :) ). With some “unusual” parameters to set in V09-6 (eg large buffers and Q1 of 30) all was done. Peter has certainly done one hell of a LOT of work on new hardware and software to produce the NOS1 USB that’s for sure.

Last night I was not able to really stretch the legs of the new DAC (small people sleeping in the house), even so it made quite an impression. I thought I would post the note that I sent to Peter this morning below to give a flavour ....

Today with the sound wound up properly the DAC is terrific and improving by the hour as the electronics burn in. I will post some proper impressions as the burn in takes place and the DAC settles.

Nick.



“Peter hi,
......
I could not listen too closely last night due to low volume levels but spent time getting the pc and 09-6 settings about right. I even had the amp connected directly without TVCs, brilliant !
 
The sound is very interesting, it has so little digital signature and is timed with such ease that I am sure that you have not added a new interface. My theory is that you have found a way of taking 20k worth of turntable and miniaturised it and put into the NOS case :-). And this from red book, it's the dream really come true, my goal for more than ten years has been a CD player that is as natural and engaging as vinyl but without it's problems. For a long time I really had doubts that it could be done, there would always be some vestige of digital signature getting in the way. The NOS USB has shown me it can be done, I am so pleased :-)
 
So today some proper running in and listening which I am really looking forward to. Not so much to listen to the performance of a good piece of equipment which is normally what i would be doing with a new peice of hifi, today I think I will be able to simply enjoy the priverladge of listening to peoples musical performances.
 
Will let you know how it goes.
 
Again, thanks Peter for the new NOS USB  of course but also for being so endlessly determined to create software and hardware that does justice to live performances.
 
Kind regards,
 
Nick. “

Hi Nick,

Congratulations! If your experience is anything like mine, you'll have a great time re-discovering your CD collection. But hopefully you'll have more time to devote to this than I've had lately.

I had a bit of time this morning though and 'forced' my wife to take a proper listen to the NOS1. She said that it sounded great, but insisted that she still preferred the sound of the PM2, which itself had remained switched off since the USB NOS1(s) arrived back. So, I switched the PM2 on and let it warm up for an hour. I then dragged my wife away from what she was doing and played a Bill Evans track back-to-back, with each DAC connected directly into the power amp in turn and the vol adjusted as equally as possible. Well, it was absolutely no contest. And even my wife now says that the NOS1 is substantially better than the PM2 in every conceivable way. Of course, I totally agree with her.

If I'm honest, this saddens me quite a bit. The big decision I now have to make is whether I put my PM2 up for sale on Audiogon/eBay... It seems total overkill having a PM2 just for digitizing vinyl, which is the only need I now have for it. But maybe I should just keep it and sell it to an audio museum in 30 years time.

Mani.

Thank you Nick. And thank yourself. You know ...

Mani, maybe you can sell it to me ...
:scratching:
No need to respond to this really. But I'd say it is worth it for my vinyl and mastertape collection ... (:yes:)

Dilemma : I don't know myself yet what the recording capabilities in/for/from the NOS1 will bring. Of course this is already getting out of hand ...

:whistle:

Mani hi,

An interesting story, I can understand the outcome but it must mark the end of personal era when a reference as good as your PM2 is surpassed. It is not quite the same but my AudioNote DAC is likely to be looking for a new home shortly as well.

Best regards,

Nick.

Nick makes an interesting point. Once you've surpassed the gold standard what else is there to strive for? I suppose Peter could go on to further tweaks of XXHighEnd or develop a comparable music player for the Mac platform. Or he could make the async Phasure NOS 1 comparable in sound quality to an even higher end vinyl-based setup.

Esau

XXhighend for Mac is due. Will this surpass PC sound achievements?

Ah, good that I know it too !
haha

But is it ?

I thought I would post a short update now that the NOS1 USB has had chance to get a few hours of use clocked up.

First thing is there there defiantly appears to be a running in process. The sound has become more richer, tuneful and extended in the highs and lows with 40 hours or so on the new interface.

It's well worth having the DAC on for a few hours before serious listening. My amp likes a few hours warm up but the NOS1 USB is like a good red wine, it's best left to warm and air for a while before enjoying. 

I found direct connection to power amp using XX volume control sounded too thin initially so I kept using a transformer volume control. Now the NOS has has some burn in and settings (see below) are worked out, the sound is now wonderfully detailed and rich when connected directly to my amp. I have no plans to to use an analogue volume control now as a result.

Setting to unattended mode with  XX to start playback immediately and not using copy to XX drive, seems important. The palpability of the music steps up a whole gear with these settings. A few weeks now and already superb sound is improved so I am doubly happy.

One fun characteristic is that each time I sit down to listen I think I remember how good the sound will be, but every time the music starts I find over again that it's just much better than I remembered. A nice memory problem to have.


On a different subject I finally got around to taking the CPU fan out of my pc, the only moving part is now the HDD. The idea was to buy something that would support upgrading my pc at a later date, so I went for this Zalman Resorator water cooling system. http://www.zalman.com/m/eng/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=183

Removal of the fan has improved sound as expected. The unit is very well made and silent in operation, the pump runs directly from it's own electrical supply so no electrical linkage to the pc. Overall a nice bit of kit even if it does look just a little "overclocky".

Nick.

I guess I can connect that to my floor heating water system ...
Could heat up the floor, could cool down the cpu and stuff.

haha :)

Hi,

A small update that might be usefull to NOS users.

I have been experiencing a rather annoying "tape hiss" type sound in the background on very quiet passages. This has been coupled with slighly confused sounding mid/highs that are at their worst when the passage being listened to has some low frequency content. The strange thing was that the symptoms were only present when playing CDs at 8 and 16 times over sampling. After 3 or 4 weeks of methodically trying everything I could think of and hours spent with test disks and frequency sweeps the sound is fixed, yippee !!!

In the end it was quite a simple problem, the fix was two things; move the NOS off the top of my amp and connect NOS to amp with a 1.0m set of interconnects instead of exactly the same type in 0.5m length. The result is much, much better music. If you have audible "tape hiss" you may want to experiment with the above.

Generally, I am just loving the NOS there is no going back once you hear this DAC ;)

Regards,

N

Hey Nick  -  Great that you fixed the problem and that you are enjoying your NOSUSB.  There is problem with NOSUSB and that is dragging yourself away from listening. Best to set an alarm clock - I keep forgetting to go to bed  :)

Just out of interest what type of interconnects do you have and also what type of speaker cables do you use?

All the best

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks, I am really pleased to have found the solution. The interconnects I use are XLO Type 4. I have had them for years (out of production now I think)  they are an unshielded design woven around a tubular hollow core. I really like there transparency but VERY unforgiving if all is not well.

Speaker cables are Van den hull 102 hybrid. I have to say that they are ok but I have tried better. Problem is I also have 4 x 6m runs to wire up so good stuff tends to get very expensive. Now your copper cables are on the cards as soon as I have carpet down in the room where I listen. At the moment we have tiles and I am not convinced enamel on wires will last long on this surface  :(

Thanks for doing the test for "tape hiss", knowing it was not a normal situation really helped in getting the problem solved.

Cheers,

N

Nick - I also have 4 x 6m runs of speaker cable. The home made copper speaker cables are good for copper but silver was significantly better when I tried it (but then the bybees more than wiped out that difference). So not sure if they will be as good as your van den hull - still for £30 it is worth a try. I may well have to come past your area in the New Year so maybe I could bring mine speaker cables in for you to try (there is a lot work in making them).

As far as enamel is concerned the biggest problem I found is getting the stuff off - dressing the ends of the wires is a pain. The enamel is very tough. I used TechFlex to cover the exposed parts of my cables just for cosmetic reasons I am confident that it would protect your cables on tiles - and TechFlex is cheap. 

P

Paul your very welcome to drop in, and thanks for offering to bring you cables over. If you get some idea on dates drop me a pm and we can get set up.

Cheers,

Nick.

Nick, it is not commonly known, but you shouldn't sell your car in the mean time.
(yea, to me)

Peter hi,

Unfortunately the last of the 4 vintage cars we were selling just sold. Sad to see them go but glad to have sorted them out for the family.

Somehow my wife and I could not bare to see all of the other cars go so we are now up to 6 including the daily drivers. The Ultima is the "interesting" one. If Paul comes over on a dry bright day it might be possible to have a little fun in it  :)

Best Nick.

Somebody like to buy a Master build Classical Guitar, that a poor student can buy a NOS1? ;)

And then play back your guitar through a stupid machine ? :stop: Looks like trading your right arm.

I have three guitars (acoustic, flamenco, classical) all of high or very high quality and no time to play all of them. So it is some kind of waste to just have them and not playing them as they deserve it. I selected all my guitars with the same enthusiasm as I build my hifi system. The cassical guitar is of course the most expensive one and the one I could give away with the smallest feeling of loss. I am in the first place a steelstring guy and second I like the sound of the flamenco guitar a lot. Even if the classic guitar is the better instrument and build like a dream. In fact, you are right. But I am realy, realy curious how the nos1 sounds. And I fear I have to wait a little longer....:teasing:

You might try crisnee, but I think he already owns a good guitar.

I forgot where you live (in Germany), but I could always offer you to come over and have a listen. Just because you are a long time special. I don't think I have done this ever before ...

I know that this won't solve your long time student problem, and maybe it makes things worse; but at least it will cure your curiosity ...

Regards,
Peter

Thanks a lot Peter for the offer. And I will take it up if there will be an opportunity to combine this trip with something else. It is not a long time anymore until I will have finished my studies. And as I have sudied something usefull, all will be well. Just some month...

It was more a joke at first to sell the guitar here but anyway, I now complete the offer: It is a Jochen Röthel 2004 (hauser style) Cedar Top and Caviuna side and back  (some kind of rio). Frensh polish, best mechanics incl case. Hardly played. New (2009), they sell for 6200€. I sell for 3500€. The buyer will make a good deal I think. In the USA you pay 8000 to 10000$ for a Röthel and in GB 5500 pound (simple rosewood) to 6000 pound.

Flecko hi,

That is one hell of a guitar, it must sound beautiful.

Best Nick.

It looks superb I would love to hear it played

Paul

Thanks guys! I like to play it and listen to the sound very much. I love instruments where a single note played already is rewarding.

Since a few days also the (proud) owner of the NOS USB. Wow what a sound... Much has been said above. I wanted to compare it with the Berkeley v2+USB (stt... I didn't tell Peter  ;) ;) ) but once I heard the DAC I was immediately convinced. I know the sound of a piano quite well: once you've heard that on this dac you know it is a very very good one..

But I want to thank you all, and especially Praphan, for your impressions & thoughts because it has helped me to come to this decision. And Peter, of course, since it takes a lot of courage and resources to develop such a great product!

Hey Hein - nice story. Thanks a lot for the feedback.


Ha ha, no, you didn't. So what you say is that I didn't even get the opportunity to talk you out of that ? :swoon:

Let me add a little story :

As long as the NOS1 doesn't go by the pallet, we always like a delivery; whether the whole arrangement happened by email and a courier only, or whether someone from The Netherlands comes to collect it.
In this case it went a little different, because Hein wanted to audition it first. But, we don't do that. It is not in the price (sorry) and what about the poor people living further away. So, no preferenced for Dutch, no matter I am one myself.

Hein also couldn't bring something for me to combine it into something useful for me, because I already had his Alpha over (ok, not his one). But, just because of that I could promise more or less what would happen.
Hein could come over and have a listen, but payed in advance anyway. We agreed I'd pay the money back when he didn't like it afterall. For both of us this seemed a "can't go wrong", and of course depends on good trust from the customer.

What happened was that after 30 seconds of listening (make that 90 to be on the safe side), Hein wanted to leave with NOS1. So yes indeed, the difference is not small. But I knew that.

The Alpha USB interface instead seems a logical path (since it is there now). But, following those reporting about it, you can already see that although it is better, there's nothing like deciding within 30 seconds that you are sure about it.

Of course this experience was a kind of new to me, just *because* of not allowing auditions. I'd almost say "if it always works out anyway, why not".

But what I (we) really like the best is the satisfaction we can provide. A sheer goal for life ...

Thanks Hein,
Peter

God I can't believe this story with all that's been written already, 30 seconds probably 2 seconds in reality to hear the difference. You know it when you hear it instantly. But you always have to do it again to prove your ears weren't faulty.

Completely true. And as I always say myself : I take 5 days for it. No less (I think it happened 3 times that even on day 5 I rejected a change).
But then this is about far more subtle differences.

Of course it can't be explained what the non-subtle differences are, but this is exactly about how we (incorporate the development of XXHighEnd now) try to change the world;

Think about your Christmas albums you talked about in the other topic. That too happened to me several years back, and how suddenly written-off old stuff had come alive - and instead of the necessity to listen to Christmas music because it belongs, that changed to sheer joy because it now sounds so good.

You got this, right ?
Now incorporate the NOS1 as well, and think it will be two times worse again, at least.

The whole problem is, is that we need to think in terms of improving "live sound" which is close already, instead of rejecting all the so many albums because of te "poor recording". The latter happens when things are not quite right, and it will be a matter of you preferring the nice bass on it but actually don't like the highs, or like the cymbals but all sounds too cold. This is because something is wrong. You will not be able to find the right settings for everything, and which in the end is the reason I need 5 days (to play sufficiently enough different material).

Once things are right (and of course this is what I'm saying), the whole world is different. This alrready was so with the first NOS1 (non-USB), and this is perceived close to instantly. But there's also the "exaggerated" high frequency output, which

- obviously strikes you as crazy to begin with, but
- which immediately makes clear that it goes in undistorted fashion just because of that high level (say, the louder, the better audible).

If I am allowed to say it : For the Alpha this is the most apparent of all modern DACs I know of, because they tried to let that sound right by means of applying filtering means which end up in cutting out so much high frequency output (level) that it can't go wrong for harshness (well, in my view). There's just nothing capable of being "sharp". But in the mean time there's no grain of freshness as well, and the next thing coming *not* from that is the spatiousness which is created from high frequencies. They lack, thus it lacks.

So the trick is not to create high level frequency output (this is fairly easy, like a Weiss can do that) ... it is about squeezing that out in undistorted fashion. And this indeed was the very first remark from Hein "man, and it doesn't even show the lightest of harshness !". So this is the apparent thing right away.

That this is not all is another thing, and as just told, for me it would need those 5 days to check it out all. That there's also spades of bass (hey, as unheard I can tell you), and that things are right in general. That no e.g. piano notes jump out. And so many more technical things. When these are behind you there's the emotional factor. This is always a problem with technical OK sounding stuff, like the WASAPI engine in XXHighEnd (very accurate, but non-emotional).
But this is what the 90 days money back guarantee is for; it is just needed.

But hey, let's not forget that it is XXHighEnd producing the sound. The NOS1 only lets it trough unmolested. Also not easy, but all starts in the software. And that software ? that is what you created with all your ears. It just is so, believe it or not.

Peter

So I pack up my async NOS1 and send it back to Peter who finds a faulty capacitor, does a repair and ships it back to me on the other side of the Atlantic. I set it up connected to my 2010 mac mini running XXHigh End on Windows 7 Home Premium in Boot Camp mode and then...the magic happens! All of a sudden I understand what all the excitement is about. I wouldn't call it hype because the NOS1 clearly delivers. I'm listening to 70's rock and roll in redbook format and I have to pinch myself because it all sounds better than the hi rez flac files on my other DACs and I can swear that I'm listening to playback in the mixing studio. I suddenly understand why hi rez really doesn't matter if you own async NOS1 as I find myself scrambling through my music files looking for more diamonds in the rough. To be sure, there are occasional extraneous sounds that tell me that I need to optimize the settings on XXHE, but that's for another time, and right now I just want to listen to the music. The bass is deeper and more complex, the background is blacker and the voices(human and instrument) are richer in detail, even on your garden variety redbook with standard CD remastering. I tell myself again, so that's what they were talking about! It's like in the film Blade Runner when Dr. Tyrell says of his android production company, "more human than human is our motto." I stop short of playing "Kind of Blue" because I want to savor it as an experience to itself but I just know it's going to sound phenomenally great. Peter, thanks again for the NOS1 and the first rate product support and, Mani, thanks for tipping me off to the existence of this wonderful DAC. I know I sound greedy, but I look forward to that day somewhere in the future when Peter perfects the add on board to allow for DSD playback, though I can't imagine that DSD could sound any more real than what we have here already.

Esau