XXHighEnd

This is bit of a teaser post I am afraid for folks using NOS1s but listening to my system as I scan the forum I have to post on the subject :)

I have stumbled across a way to make the NOS1 significantly even more fantastic than it already is (to my ears). Bass is there in spades (rich, deep, superb pitch), tone of instruments superb (strings, brass, cymbals), just the most analogue sound I have heard from digital. The body and presence, sound stage and sense of performance are quite superb. The difference is similar in effect to moving from z3 to z4 but much more pronounced, you hear it from the first note played !

Anyway what I plan to do is send some gear over to Peter when he gets back from holidays in a couple of weeks as I think it is important that Peter looks at this before any more is said.

For now what I can say for a fact that there is a lot of "headroom" to be had (if you can image that) from what is an already undoubtedly a perfect DAC.  :) :) :)

Regards,

Nick.

You Teaser   :evil:

You start to write like Peter... Hmmmm

 :)

:blob8:

One give away???

1: Did you changed something inside the NOS1 or is it something external.

 :grin:

Gerard,

It is inside and quite simple in concept but I really don't want to say more because it is very important that Peter has time to look into it, test, measure, listen and take proper view on what if anything he would like to do. My comments are subjective only as I do not have the equipment to test quantitatively.

Being inside the DAC is defiantly not a recommended place to be. But I have been working with Peter on some aspects of my system setup for quite a while which is why I have been in there with his guidance - defiantly not recommended otherwise.

I have already passed some details on and I will send Peter some parts to try the concept when he gets back. It may or may not be something that Peter can use generally, it's absolutely his call.

Best Nick.

Hey Nick,

Sorry i do not want to be to pushy. Had a few drinks and feeling a bit funny....

But you have gave us one.. And i think a good one!!!  ;)

It is worth the waiting. Indeed most important Peter give his view on this.

Nice that you took the time and the courage to try!!

Thanx...  :ok:

Gerard,

No problems. Have a drink for me too  :drinks:

Nick

Hahaha,

Peter will not have a quiet holiday with this in mind.

 :rofl: :rofl:

 ;)

hahaha ?
HAHAHA ??

doh :aggressive:

Umhhhh......

Let's do some educated guess ! It should be something to do with power supply since Nick said it is simple modification. I don't think anyone would exchange the SMT chip on board. I don't think anyone would touch the word clock floating above the Juli@ card.

I guess simple modification will go into the followings area:

1. Soldering in two additional caps on the DAC power supply PCB. The PCB has room to take more caps though. I would use Mundorf MCap Supreme Silver/Gold.

2. Upgrading the wiring from DAC to XLR or RCA terminals. I would use Mundorf pure silver wire.

3. Upgrading all internal AC/DC wiring. However, this is too difficult considering the fact that these wires run from one compartment to another.

4. Upgrading the XLR or RCA terminals. I think Neutrik is good enough.

I hope my 2 cents are well spent.
Praphan

 Parphan hi,

They are good thoughts points 1 to 4 but its not these. In my case the DAC has not been touched with a soldering iron... Peter suspected magnets applied to the case (his joke only  :) ) , but the details are with Peter to test now. Let's see what he finds, could always be that I had a case of rose colour glasses this weekend (i don't think so though  ;)  ).

Cheers,

Nick

Hmmmm contest??

Could it be the fuses than???  :)

I am a big fan of fuses :) All Power House Platinum fuses in all my stereo equipment that I could change (better than the new Hifi Tuning with gold/silver stuff, at least in my system). I would have thought one easy place to upgrade Phasure would be better cable from computer to
NOS1. Internal wiring/capacitors are a favourite of all the tinkerer but does not seem to be it. May be something more to do with isolation or
better vibration control of the unit or power supply, perhaps.

I haven't tried changing the fuse yet. I thought about it but not just only the fuse but the entire fuse compartment. Fuse contact looks like a plain vanilla material to me. I used after market power cord both JPS red with Wattgate and Kimble green with Wattgate. Little more punch than stock cord. NOS 1 comes with 4 simple foam look pads used for cushioning the DAC. But I used Vibropod instead.

I think it may be some woodoo thing that Nick used to shield out more RMI/EMI.

Nick why don't you run a contest ?

Cheers !
Praphan

I've been wondering whether upgrading the stock DVI cable connecting the NOS1 to the PC might make a difference. A copper DVI cable with better shielding than the stock cable might help. Of course, a fibre optic DVI extender would galvanically isolate the NOS1 from the PC altogether...

Mani.

1000 euros comes first then. :scratching:

But I can't imagine how a better copper cable could ever help here. This is the most data as data can be, and if that fails, well, then all fails (in the midst of the OS).

Oh, I'm not going to try this. I'm saving my pennies for future 'official' NOS1 upgrades...

Mani.

...its not a new paint colour is it  :innocent:

This is one of those things,you should not expect cables carrying digital data to be that important but digital cables, Lynx breakout cables, USB and firewire cables, heck even Toslink optical cables are not all made equal (in their respective group) some do sound significantly better than stocked cables by a big margin so why not cable from computer to NOS1 :)

Yeah, I fully align with Doc.

This is some of the woodoo stuff that I don't understand. Digital signal is supposed  to be either 0 or 1. But I can guarantee you that my Lynx digital cable yield different SQ than Doc's Cardas Clear custom made one.

Woodoo !

Hi guys,

I'm proberbly as interested as anyone to see what Peter makes of this. It's not a passive component or cable upgrade.

I have had more time to form an opinion and play about with lower buffer levels than are the norm to compliment the change to the DAC, I'm convinced there is something very good here. What I have in my setup is a long way from a productised solution though, this is Peters domain if he likes what the change delivers enough to think it worthwhile.

There are a couple more things that might help  :)but I want to compare notes with Peter on these.

Regards,

Nick.

All the cables in the "SPDIF" domain are about audio. This is not "data" as such. So, all what transports audio does matter.

If you think that the remainder mettrs too, better start exchaning all your ATX cabling.
Who knows ! haha

Did that :)
My Seatronic power supply has detachable power cords so out went the stocked cords and came in cardas wire :)
Now I am using Weiss INT202 firewire/AES-EBU converter and I also find firewire does matter as well, for whatever it worth.
Even just disconnecting power lead in stocked firewire cable helps quite a bit. Don't ask me why though :)
 

Hi Peter,

May be you can help clarify. I am not quite sure if I understand correctly. But S/PDIF  interface is used to carry compressed digital audio. The electrical signal in the chain is still digital not analog. How digital audio and digital data are different?


Thanks

Suteetat, I was talking about connectors for data cables, not power cables. Regarding power I guess all may matter again. :)

Praphan, digital "audio data" as such is subject to the timing of it (data bytes (actually words or samples) must arrive at precise intervals). Normal data is totally unrelated to timing. It just must arrive correctly; if tomorrow, then tomorrow. :yes:

If it's not clear, ask ahead.

Peter

Thanks Peter, crystal clear.
Praphan

ah, I see, kind of done that too :) Apparently, at least in the DIY and mod market here, Oppo DVD/Blu ray is quite popular item for third party modification and there is a eSata cable that some people swear by that makes a different to the picture. I have no idea why there is an eSata cable in a blu ray player, probably from transport, I suppose. Anyhow, so I switched all the internal esata cable as well just in case :) since it does not cost very much anyhow. So, whatelse can I change that would not involve blow torch or soldering iron :)
Changing cap on mobo sounds like fun but not something I want to try for now :)

Update

The post started with the tile "NOS1 to the next level ?" the "?" was there for a reason  :(. I have applied a second change now and IMHO it's time to drop the "?" :) (at least in terms of NOS1 potential).

What has changed ? very little (physically) and a great deal (sound) ... after the second change (very small change really and related to the first) the sound has just improved by another big step all over again  :) :) :). More hash gone (I didn't think there was any left after the 1st change !), better bass performance (just listening to the hinges and doors in my house rattle as I write), improved dynamics and slam, sound more separated from the speakers etc etc.

You can really hear the differences that XX software settings make much more with the changes in place so it took a while to get to the sweet spot but its defiantly there now :holiday:

I will send the details of change 2 to Peter to look at as well.

Nick.

:wtf:  :oops: Are you doing.....

  :swoon:

Gerard hi,

Just the stuff I have always done with DACs but the results here are bigger than usual. I think it is a function of how well designed the NOS1 is. If you stumble on a slight bottle neck and address it lots "gets through". I'm very interested to see what Peter makes of the changes how they measure etc. I'm always a bit cautious of posting claimed improvements just in case they don’t work elsewhere.

Hope your enjoying the sunshine !
Nick
.

Ok that is some nice inside information enjoy the nice weather too.  :)

Hmmm he must get home from holiday now.... :rofl:

btw where on this planet are you Peter??

Have a chopper ordered.  ;)


 :no: Enjoy as much as you can!

Will take a  few :drinks: now...  :)

I must say that the timing for this vacation could have been better somewhat. I never have had such a great tool under my hands before (but have always been looking for it), and next to that Nick came along with his little surprise. I just had time to get it running before leaving, but after applying a couple of things upside down, inside out, plus to minus, I destroyed my great tool #1 and experienced ticks from it. But, still could get the merits Nick is talking about, well, sort of;
My great little To(ol)y had been playing for two days, and the combination with Nick's appliance urged me to do something quite else, and urged me to tell the world about *that*. But I guess it needs a little waiting, which I guess for me is worse than for you out there.

So, not one little gadget with great results, but a tool on top of it that makes it crazy all together. :yes::yes:

But okay, my balkony where I'm typing this right now - looking over the east coast US ocean - a cigar here and a beer there - also is quite nice.
The upcoming week should be as crazy as again better music, real bad weather and tornado's crossing our path for 100% sure at going more northwards. Should be something else for a change !

Peter

My first boss never went on holiday, he was afraid that if he did when he returned his job would have disappeared... years later another one of my bosses went on holiday, he was in charge of the biggest department in the company, about 3000 people, when he returned his department had been disbanded and his last task was going on a tour to tell "his people" to find another job...

moral to the story, always holiday as if it was going to be your last one! :holiday:

Hi all again,

Change no. 3 is now in the bag. Again it is quite simple, based on something I have done before this time inside the PC and also inspired by something that Peter mentioned in a PM.

The sound change is a significant one. Just when I thought that all the hash had gone, much more has disappeared, when will this stop ?  :dntknw:, I really don’t think there is much more left now. Sound changes centre on effortless macro and micro dynamics with improvements in instrument tone and levels of substance (again). Its all very "real" sounding and not at all forced. I am not quite sure about this but there could be a very, very slight loss in bass extension and high frequency response (compared to how changes 1 and 2 sound together). The three changes working together sound so right however that I am working on the theory that these small changes to the top and bottom end are just reflections of what is in recordings.

Altogether things are sounding pretty special now :)

As usual I will send the details over to Peter to look into and test.

Nick.

Nick - you are a tease.

Power supply and cables were touched on earlier in this thread. For what its worth I have tried NOS1 with special power cable (low inductance and low capacitance) on a dedicated mains spur itself wired with special cable. In the past with other equipment this has made a significant difference but with NOS1 I cannot detect any difference versus standard mains cable on a normal house ring. More work to be done to be sure but NOS does not seem to be sensitive to power cable type from what I have seen so far.

PC

Paul,

Sorry, actually some of the guesses are close to what is being changed, but I would rather Peter looks the changes over before saying anything too specific. Rest assured there is relatively easy headroom to be had which could be good news for NOS1 owners.

Regards,

Nick.

Just thinking what next sorry  :whistle:

Nick - no problem at all you are doing it exactly the right way. Its good to have something to look forward to.

Paul

Thanks for this feedback Paul. This is exactly the intention of it all, or IOW it works (as intended). I don't do much with mains cables myself, so for me it was just theory.
Btw, this counts for everyone with the little "meters" inside. For the others there may be a difference with mains cables (capacitance impeded).

Peter

Hi Peter - I forgot to mention but I checked the volt meters in both cases i.e. with the standard cable on the main house ring versus dedicated hi spur wired back to the distribution box with very low inductance and capacitance cable.

My NOS1 voltmeter readings have been rock solid i.e. they are always the same when NOS is fired up and have been right from when I first installed it - always reading the same (when they settle down which is quite quickly) one reads -4mv the other +8mv and there is no difference whether on house ring or hifi spur.

Paul C

Sorry again for the teaser, but another change post.

Change 5 is applied. It is a really very simple change indeed, just the removal of a few components but it is by some margin the most profound change so far. A game changer in its own right and can be applied on its own. It changes the whole presentation, bass to highs, the effect on bass is simply great, taught full and deep delivery.

Details are with Peter.

Nick.

ps I don't want to have these posts come across wrongly, it's great fun making these changes but its only possible to get these effects because they are applied to such a great starting point...the NOS1.

Hahaha. I didn't read about "Change 5" yet (will do that in a minute), but I can tell that Nick and I have been doing quite some sparring on "tweaks" to the NOS1. Funnily enough we both started around the same time on rather different physical subjects but with the exact same purpose in mind.

I think I am sort of finished with my part of the deal now, and Nick will soon be running out of appliances I guess. Then what ?
Then we both will have achieved the same but by very different means.

And then what ?
Then theoretically both can be combined as well. But, if either of us has done a great job, the one makes the other superfluous.

Well, now you know it all ! :teasing:

Peter,

Question: When you have it finished do we need to send the NOS1 back or wil it be something we can exchange ourselve?

 :)

I actually only today finished something which was key to it all. Took me 2 months or so. Ok, throughput, but still.

So, now I can start thinking about how to apply it.

Peter

That sounds good!

 :yes:

How do you know ? haha

You are right i do not.  :grin:

But does it? ;)