XXHighEnd

I've just ordered a 'Purepower 2000' unit (not cheap at £2500). This is a true AC regenerator, totally isolated from the mains by a battery. My main interest is in feeding clean power to my ADC/DAC, which draws ~200W. But I'm going to try connecting as many devices with linear PSs to it as possible, including my power amp.

Will let you know what I think...

Mani.

Good luck with that! I have MIT Z Powerbar in my system now, but don't like it at all.

subscribed.

I've had the weekend to play around with the PurePower 2000i. Overall, I like the change in sound. It's 'calmer' and a lot less 'edgy'. The sound stage seems to have been pushed right back, and the sound itself is less in your face - more laid back. It seems to be accentuating the LF region and attenuating the HF region, which I really like. Since getting it, I've tended to load an album and just listen to it all the way through, which is a really good sign.

With my whole system plugged into the unit, I can run it for ~10 minutes by unplugging the 2000i from the wall and using it's internal battery. What's interesting is that there is absolutely no change in sound when the unit is plugged back into the wall. This is a very good sign IMO.

However, it seeems that I've lost some dynamics. This is actually quite hard to figure out. Is this down to the removal of edgy distortion, or is it a compression of dynamic peaks, which has been the universal criticism of other power cleaning devices? I'm not sure. I can say though that the protection circuits in my Quad speakers seem to be kicking in more often. I attribute this to the increased LF energy and the fact that I'm tending to listen at higher volumes now because the sound is so laid back and easy on the ear.

My biggest concern though is the output voltage from the 2000i. In compliance with EU regulations, it outputs a rock steady 230V (even when unplugged from the wall). Ordinarily, this is great. However, my power-amp, pre-amp and ADC/DAC only have switchable 100V, 120V, 220V and 240V inputs. So, I can set them to 220V and have them overvolted by 10V, or set them to 240V and have them undervolted by 10V. Theoretically, a 5% difference shouldn't make a difference of course. But IME, undervolting seems to provide a more laid-back sound... which is exactly what I'm getting. Now the 2000i can output 240V, but this is set at the factory. I will contact PurePower to see if this is something I can do easily. If so, I'd like to increase the output to 240V.

Any thoughts welcome.

Mani.

UPDATE

Firstly, I contacted the PurePower guys a couple of weeks ago. They were ultra-responsive and very helpful. With their help, I easily managed to increase the output of the PP2000 up to a constant 240V. It was obvious the moment I switched the PP2000 back on that all equipment set specifically to 240V is happier running at exactly 240V, rather than being ‘undervolted’ by 10V. (I'm totally aware that this equipment uses voltage regulators and that a 5% undervoltage should not matter.)

The dynamics are back!

In the last couple of weeks, I’ve managed to get a few moments to sit and listen to music. I’ve also managed to compare running the system from the PP2000 vs. straight from the wall. The PP2000 easily beats the wall. The sound is ‘cleaner’, more solid and, perhaps most importantly, more harmonically rich. It’s just more enjoyable and rewarding to listen to. In comparison, from the wall, the sound is thin and edgy. Maybe this is purely psychological, but it really does seem as if the music is being corrupted by noise.

I will repeat this comparison once the new mains circuit is in place. This should improve the performance of the system running off the wall. However, I suspect the PP2000 will benefit also.

Mani.

Who would have thought that ...

(yeah, you :))

I am happy to hear about your findings.
I am planning to feed all my (low level) components from a PP (except my 3 huge power amps).

Some Norwegian users have reported failure problems/lot's of defect units from PP. Hopefully this quality issue has been solved by now.
If so, it's listed on my 2011 budget!

UPDATE

I've had my PP2000 for around 4 months, so I thought I'd post my findings to date.

Hmmmm... I'm not sure if I can fully recommend this product.

Although I haven't really tested the direct wall mains AC vs. the PP2000 regenerated AC (I've been waiting for my dedicated mains supply to be installed first), I have compared (quite extensively) the regenerated AC vs. the battery AC. What really, really bothers me is that there is a big difference in sound between these two. And it's not totally obvious which sounds better... it depends.

For example, I've been listening to Special vs. Adaptive in 0.9z-4-1. Now to my ears, Special sounds 'drier' and more 'wooden', Adaptive 'wetter' and more 'metallic'. However, my overall preference very much depends on which mode the PP2000 is set to. If it's in regenerated AC mode, then I prefer Special. If it's in battery mode, then I prefer Adaptive.

What really cheeses me off about the PP2000 is that there is a difference at all between the two modes. PurePower claims that there isn't. But there obviously is! And hence why I can't fully recommend this product.

Mani.

Hi Mani,

Which of your components are fed from the PP2000?

Hi Pedal,

I've actually tried all sorts of combinations, including running my PC from the PP2000. But right now, I have the NOS1 and my power amp connected to the PP2000 (no preamp). I'll experiment more with different combinations once my dedicated mains circuit is completed (hopefully soon, but I've said that many times before).

I just can't help wondering whether some of the issues that we're trying to solve (e.g. a 'forward' sound) are actually problems induced by our mains electricity supplies. But this really is a whole 'can of worms' - no one seems to have any idea on how the mains electricity affects sound. It seems that a perfect sinewave is not sufficient for good sound. Some people have suggested that even snow on the ground (and/or on overhead power cables) seems to improve the sound. Because of temperature? Because an electromagnetic wave is passing through a crystalline structure? Who knows...

But there really does seem to be something weird going on with electricity...

Mani.

Mani, FYI, I have just sorted this out - sort of. Took me a whole month together with one of our respected members here, but things ARE going on indeed. Just wait. Please ...

I have been experimenting a bit with power conditioners including PS Audio Powerpack 1600 (similar idea to PurePower2000 but much cheaper,
not sure if it would perform at the same level, probably not!). A friend was also trying Purepowr2000 with his VTL 7.5 preamp and EMM XDS1.
So far, I found that any kind of active conditioner (regenerators etc) seems to have both positive and negative effect. Background tends to be more quite, better detail but loss of dynamic can be bothersome and often the sound is more shut in. (my observation only and only on those I I tried so far).

I find passive conditioning much better and seems to have less impact on dynamic but most still decrease dynamic to certain extent.

The best thing I found so far is Isoclean Isolation transformer. Everything becomes more quiet, much better detail and does not seems to limit current at all. My friend is using his on Plinius 1000w monoblocks with no problem at all. I am using 2, one each on my monoblock and one more for all the sources.

Isoclean also comes with 220v, 230v and 240v tabs. At 220v, the sound is more laid back but a bit lethargic in comparison to 240v.

I think that something like Purepower2000 is probably not going to like heavy load like power amplifier very much. One main problem with battery is always that it can deliver steady voltage but cannot go up and down on very demanding dynamic passage quickly unless lots of capacitor banks are used.

A lot of my friends are also experimenting with having separate ground rod just for dedicated audio circuit ( I am not one of them since I am in an apartment building) and reported significant improvement.

Electricity is definitely an annoying thing and tampering with it definitely pays dividens but unfortunately most will have both positive and negative effects.

Interesting product. I wonder how it gets rid of RF without any electronic parts. It seems to be a transformator that normaly should stop only DC component.

I have no idea exactly how it works but 4-5 friends of mine who auditioned Isoclean, everybody ended up buying them.
Our local dealer actually came to our places to install them for home demo first. The friend who used Purepower also took out his Purepower and
replaced it with Isoclean. 

Happy to wait. Very interested in hearing about your findings.

Meanwhile, my new hifi mains circuit should be coming online this weekend. It's fed right from the mains inlet to the house, is isolated from the inlet with a 15KVA (yes, 15000VA) triple-shielded isolation transformer and has a dedicated ionic grounding system (<5 Ohms impedance). All components will be 'star grounded' to maintain virtually zero potential difference between them. At a total cost of around €7000 (parts + installation), it had better be an improvement over a straight PP2000! I'll let you know...

Mani.

Is this a DIY project or is there a professional involved? Have you more informations about this project?

Mani hi,

That’s some power setup, with a 13kVA isolation transformer I hope your floor is reinforced  ;).  I have heard good things about dedicated spurs and ionic grounds. Looking forward to hearing how things go.

Nick.

No reinforced floor - the transformer (actually 15KVA, not 13 as I first thought, and around 120Kg in weight) sits in the basement.

Well, the dedicated mains is now up and running. It's early days of course but I really, really like what I'm hearing. The sound I'm getting directly from the mains is now better than the sound I can get from the PP2000 unit in battery mode. I still don't like the PP2000 in regenerator mode - it seems to add a 'shiny sheen' to the sound, which initially makes everything sound more detailed. But I think this is false detail. Directly into the wall now sounds so beautifully 'woody'. Very nice.

Mani.

Mani,

Glad to hear things have gone well. 260lbs of iron and copper now that's some investment in sound  ;
Best
Nick

Well, this is what "260lbs of iron and copper" looks like (Transformer.jpg below). I placed a CD on top to give you an idea of the size.


It's pretty much a DIY project. I 'designed' the total system myself and took all the major decisions, but got a qualified electrician to do most of the work. Fortunately, the guy I used is very experienced in installing massive AC systems for hospitals and lightening rods, etc. Apparently, my transformer is actually "quite small" compared to the gear he's installed. He was pretty expensive, but I don't think I could have done it without him. I had a number of electricians who came to give me a quote and all of them ran away. None of them understood what I meant by things such as 'CADweld'. But my man knew exactly what I meant - had used it many times before.

But even my man didn't really understand exactly what I was trying to achieve overall. The real objective was to get an ultra-low impedance and totally isolated 'star' grounding system.

Mani.

As is often the case, my initial thoughts have changed having now spent a bit of time listening to my new mains circuit. I have to say that I'm getting pretty much the best sound I've ever had by feeding the PP2000 from my new dedicated mains circuit. The PP2000 brings the music to life. The sound is a lot cleaner and sweeter. Bass is much tighter and yet perhaps even more extended. So it's now not a case of having either the dedicated mains circuit or the PP2000, but rather a case of having the dedicated mains circuit and the PP2000. Why the change of heart? I don't know - perhaps I simply hadn't given the PP2000 enough time to warm up before evaluating it.

I asked Damian Janzen of PurePower a question about the electrical noise that the PP2000 injects back into the mains and here's what he had to say: "Regarding the PP2000 backwards effect into the Mains, your addition of an Isolation transformer with it's new low impedence ground will certainly minimize whatever effect it may have. All devices connected to an AC supply work to distort that source in some way. The better the source in terms of both purity and stiffness (resitance to distortion - mainly a factor of capacity) the less the load has the potential to distort it. That big isolation transformer is a good choice."

Perhaps this is why my system overall now sounds better with the PP2000 than it did before.

Mani.

Great project mani! Someday, I like to do something like this myself. But before I need a house :)

The subject we are sharing on this thread is all about feeding our audio gears with pure power juice.

Personally, I have the similar experience with Suteetat. I don't particulary like active power conditioner as it tends to put constraints on current flow. Finally, I ended up with a pair of 3KVA isolation toroidal transformers connected parallely feeding passive conditioner before going into all audio gears. All these "power treatment" gears are made in Hong Kong by an audiophile who marketed his product under the name of Isoclean. So far I am very happy with the result.

I made my dedicated star ground from three 1" dia solid copper rods each 1.8 m long wiring together by exothemic welding. Great outcome ! The solid copper rods "do" make the difference. If you want to bring your power supply purity to the next level, you might want to consider using modified MDB with gold plated and cryogenically treated circuit breakers. You can find them on the after market hiend audio suppliers. If you have 3 phase power supply to your place, great. Choose the phase that avoid  a common circuit with any electrical appliances using motors (fridge, washing machine, etc. ) to be your dedicated audio circuit.

Praphan

Flecko, when that day comes, I'll be happy to help out in any way I can.


Praphan, how would describe the difference that these parallelled transformers make to the sound?


This sounds similar to what I've done. Except that I've gone for 10x Earth wires of exactly the same length (one for each component) exothermically welded to a thick copper ribbon, which itself is fed 1m below ground and exothermically welded to the 3m ionic electrode grounding rod. Like you, I am convinced that this 'star' arrangement makes a big contribution to the improvement in sound. The obvious point is that it eliminates all ground loops - they just cannot occur as all components sit at the same potential. But also, I think an ultra-low impedance grounding system helps remove noise from the sytem. I know it's a bit of a cliché in audiophile circles, but when playing music, the background really does seem to be totally black.

But even with this setup, I can easily just totally ruin the sound by switching to Engine#3 (WASAPI) or even Adaptive (which I used to really like). Only Special seems on par with my system now.

Mani.

Has anyone tried an UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) with the computer?. The UPS besides to protect the computer when the input power fails also filtrates the mains. I wonder if an UPS could affect in any way the sound of the system with the NOS1 in it.

Hi Mani,

How would I describe the sound quality as a result of feeding all my audio and video equipments with a pair of isolation transformers?

1. Quieter background (audio) or darker background (video). This should be due to less noises , spike and RF in the electricity chain. I place this pair of transformers in the listening room right next to the monoblocks. So I run short aftermarket hiend AC cords from xformers to Amps. The xformers are concealed in solid copper casing which shield out any potential RF interference. Internal wiring inside the xformers are made of large guage solid silver.  All connectors are 24K gold plates even on the AC cords. This project is partly DIY.

2. Better dynamic due to quieter environment. Very low level sound in some classical material can be heard crystal clearly. So you feel a wider dynamic range. With this I have to redo my air cond system by installing silencer in the duct works to block the fan noise hence lower the AC noise level down significantly.

3. With #1 and #2 above, I feel I have a broader sound stage with the same speaker set up. May be this is subjective.

Hope this help.
Thanks
Praphan 

Hi

I have a "true online" UPS. The basic topology of online UPS is the same as in a standby or line-interactive UPS. However it typically costs more, due to it having a much greater current AC-to-DC battery-charger/rectifier, and with the rectifier and inverter designed to run continuously with improved cooling systems (larger cooling fan is a must - noisy). It is also called a "double-conversion" UPS due to the rectifier directly driving the inverter, even when powered from normal AC current. The batteries are always connected to the inverter, so that no power transfer switches are necessary. The online UPS may be necessary when the power environment is "noisy" such as in industrial settings, for larger equipment loads like data centers, or when noise sensitive equipments are used like our audiophile gears.

How does this do to the sound quality when used to feed PC and NOS1 ?

1. PC supplied by online UPS and NOS1 by isolation transformers : No significant difference in sound quality. I cannot hear the difference. As PC and UPS are both noisy equipments. My UPS and PC both have cooling fans. Even though my PC is water cooled but the PSU has built in cooling fan.

2. Both PC and NOS1 are fed by online UPS => degradation in sound quality due to noise from UPS. You need to put conditioner in the chain but it is not as good as isolation transformers.

That said, there is an upside to power both PC and NOS1 by UPS. This is because it can protect against any hardware failure in case of power blackout while you are away from home. Some people used to turn on PC and NOS1 all the time to burn in the system. In case of short blackout and without UPS, PC will continue to turn off while NOS1 turn on after the power resumes. That means the Juli@ system will be on while PC is off. Peter does not recommend this. I guess it is harmful to the sound card system. If you use UPS, I suggest you hook both PC and NOS 1 on UPS. Not one of them. This is because Juli@ card should not be turned off without PC off first. This is pretty much like you pull out the PCI card from the slot while the PC is running. Correct me if I am wrong Peter.

All in all, I like to run my PC and NOS1 bare from isolation transformers and passive conditioner.

This is purely my experience.
Praphan

Not exactly. Such (sound)cards anticipate on the control of the PC, and we can obviously reason out that when normally the PC is Off, the (sound)card will be off just the same (not under power). In this case though, we allow the (sound)card to be under power, while not being under the control of the PC. What happens seems to be rather random, or at least I couldn't not find any reasonable "strategy" in how the card will control itself. This, while it is clear that all kind of certain voltages emerge at certain positions during boot (think of this like a communication protocol).

This is why the current NOS1 versions come along with a switch which allows to switch off the soundcard section; Now all can be on (when being away) while the (sound)card is just not under power. Notice though that in this case "all" virtually means that the PC can be off, while the DAC is just on (breaking in purposes). Of course the PC can be on just the same in this situation, but no communication will be there just because the soundcard section is not under power.
:wacko:
Anyway, you can do/set as you want.

Peter

Uh-oh ... I better had said nothing ! :)

I meant : You can set all like how you want it - or leave on everything like you want it. But one thing rules :

The soundcard section in the NOS1 should be Off when the PC is Off.
(or the whole DAC is to be Off when the PC is Off, also OK).

Sorry for being confusing !!
Peter

PS:  :offtopic:
:yes:

It seems that to use an UPS is not a good idea if we talk just about sound quality. But:

- What about the data (songs) you have in the hard drives?. Could they be lost in case of a blackout?

- What if I connect the UPS into the power wall and a passive isolation or transformers to the UPS on one side and to the computer on the other side?. Couldn´t the transformers clean the dirt of the UPS and computer while at the same time the computer would be protected from a power blackout?. 

On the other hand, some time ago I´ve tried several different power conditioners from Isotek, PS or Audience and my conclusion is that none of them provides something different than what I´d call just a tone control, similar to what some sophisticated power cords do. At this time I don´t use any power conditioner and only would use one if I can protect the data and at the same time not harm the sound. That´s why I´m interested in the UPS on-line.

I tried one of those true online double conversion UPS thing for computer and it was no good eventhough I picked one that is quite a bit bigger than what my music server needs. Dynamic was limited quite a bit. I did not try PurePower but I also tried PS Audio Powerpack 1500 (I think). It was better than the true online UPS but it still degraded the sound a bit. Now I just plug my computer right into my passive power conditioner which plugged into Isoclean isolated transformer.

Unfortunately I live on 11th floor of an apartment building. I wish I could try the separate ground rods for my stereo system. Somehow I don't think stikcing copper rod into my flower pot on the balcony will work :(

Hi

Music files should be treated the same way as other valuable data files. Power failure is not the only cause of data loss. HDD crash, virus infection ........ You name it.

You need to back up your valuable music files.

Praphan

Thanks Praphan and Suteetat, I´m going to forget about the UPS and probably I´ll use some kind of pasive filter as you said.

I am a XXHighEnd user with a bad experience of PurePower to contribute to those considering it.

I tried to purchase a PurePower 1050i in October 2010.  The European distributor had two available at a discount (I gathered later that they were flushing old stock) and I ordered one.  It took three weeks to do just that - the man was a terrible communicator.  The unit arrived, eventually, after a month.  On plugging it in, the display immediately went to FAULT!!!.  The unit passed a current to my equipment (at that point just a lamp as a precaution), but the display was clear, even when restarted.  I asked if there was anything I should do before returning it.  After one week of fruitless back and forth I stated that I wanted to return the unit as I no longer had confidence in the product or the company.  No reply for five days until I sent another email demanding a response with a read receipt.

At that point the US Sales Director got involved who immediately relayed to me the wonderful accolades that a recent customer in Scotland had sent.  He ended with:  PurePower is the real deal, worth a little bit of hassle for what it does.  I guess that is why he is head of sales!  He won, I wanted the unit after all, so I tried to work with a technical guy in Canada.  The result was Fault!!!

It took ten days before I got a response from the USA that he would get the European to arrange for a return.  It is now 16 weeks later.  The unit was returned only five weeks ago, and I heard nothing back from Europe or the US.  I sent an ultimatum last week that I would put the matter in the hands of an attorney if I did not receive a confirmation of payment by the end of today.  The Head of Sales read it, but never responded.  The European distributor responded with a promise to make the payment.  Today I notified them that they had missed the deadline and immediately received a response that the payment was sent and they could fax me the slip.  That was followed by an email saying that the payment failed, despite them having my international payment instructions since December.

A long story.  I am contributing this because I would have wanted to read it when I was looking into PurePower. 

Sad story ...

What I would do (I realy would) is threaten them by stating their names right in this topic if nothing changes, put some nasty (but reality !) words like "hoax" next to it, and wait for Google to catch it (usually within the few hours for this forum). So, don't put that in any posts yet, because they (all instances) have to have one chance, and you shouldn't be sued for spreading the wrong word. Give them a link to this topic (your post above) if you want. Point out that sales really will drop because of your upcoming post.

Give them a quote like

"PurePower 1050i in October 2010"

to feed into Google, and proove to them that it will really work the very same with whatever names you are going to mention later, if needed.

I hope it works out for you !!
Peter

 :offtopic:  I feel for you, PNCD.

I have yet to experience the same level of support like what Peter has provided in the stereophile/audiophile market without paying $$$ for their products first.

Anybody still using one of these Pure Power regenerators with their NOS1a?